Another look at the War for Southern Independence

[Salty]

From the Abbeville Review

Ten Reasons for the War

 

[SGO]

In exploring this wide ranging forum I was very surprised to see that no one had replied to this post, which has information that contradicts what, at least I, was taught in school (N).

Given that reason for the war was mainly economic, what do you think the explanation is for the huge prevalence (but lessening) of racism that has existed up until today?

 

[JonC]

Ahhhh....the War of Northern Aggression. I remember it well.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Ahhhh....the War of Northern Aggression. I remember it well.

Surely you cannot be that old, even if you might look it.

 

[Rob_BW]

A student of history would know that primary sources are preferred to secondary. So why on earth would articles written within the last 20 years (secondary sources) hold more weight than things like the Articles of Secession (primary sources)?

 

[JonC]

Surely you cannot be that old, even if you might look it.

It's not that I'm old so much as the North has not yet stopped "aggressing".

And I can prove it.

 

[Salty]

Ahhhh....the War of Northern Aggression. I remember it well.

Yes, in fact I thought i saw a picture of you with Gen Lee!

but to answer SGO's question from post # 2: what do you think the explanation is for the huge prevalence (but lessening)
of racism that has existed up until today?

I think that the Norths treatment of the South after the War had much to do with it. In some ways Germany and Japan was
treated much better.

 

[JonC]

You know, I grew up in the South (friends that were white, black, and hispanic had rebel flags and we all watched the Dukes of Hazard).

The most racist place I lived was Maryland. I think that contemporary racism is based more in culture and perhaps escaping responsibility than it is in experience. I know racism exists (everywhere). But it has nothing to do with the Civil War.

 

[AustinC]

Ah yes...the war to legally enslave a human being and treat them like cattle. How thrilling to see legal reasoning for calling God's creation "less than."

God brought His judgment to bear on the United States for their early failure to provide the pursuit of happiness to all humans in its border.
Unfortunately, we have still looked for ways to keep on sinning and keep on mistreating those around us who do not act like us.
But hey...States rights and all that hullabaloo...

 

[JonC]

Ah yes...the war to legally enslave a human being and treat them like cattle.

Nope. They were legally enslaving human beings and treating them like cattle before the war.

 

[SGO]

Yes, in fact I thought i saw a picture of you with Gen Lee!

but to answer SGO's question from post # 2: what do you think the explanation is for the huge prevalence (but lessening)
of racism that has existed up until today?

I think that the Norths treatment of the South after the War had much to do with it. In some ways Germany and Japan was
treated much better.

Thank you for your answer.
Yes the North likes to squeeze but then there are/were plenty of racists up there and everywhere else in this country.
I am in my "older" years now and I can see that sickness in me even though I know that Christ died for every person who ever lived.
"And he is the propitiation for our sins;
and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world."
1 John 2:2

 

[Salty]

Thank you for your answer.
Yes the North likes to squeeze but then there are/were plenty of racists up there and everywhere else in this country.
I am in my "older" years now and I can see that sickness in me even though I know that Christ died for every person who ever lived.

the big difference was that the South admitted they were racists - the Northern brethren would not admit they were

 

[SGO]

the big difference was that the South admitted they were racists - the Northern brethren would not admit they were

It doesn't smell as bad "up here" because of the cold.

Here is an article I just found about an aspect of Baptist history.
Racism and Inequality in the North Prior to the Civil War | Baptists and the American Civil War: In Their Own Words

 

[AustinC]

Nope. They were legally enslaving human beings and treating them like cattle before the war.

Yep, and that is exactly why the South started the war. They claimed States rights to enslave as they willed without Federal right to end slavery.

 

[Salty]

Yep, and that is exactly why the South started the war. They claimed States rights to enslave as they willed without Federal right to end slavery.

Yes, slavery was part of it, but there was a lot more issues.

 

[Marooncat79]

So you guys are saying slavery is/was sinful

Just checking

 

[JonC]

So you guys are saying slavery is/was sinful

Just checking

I think we all believe slavery was/ is evil.

But we have to keep on mind it was a different worldview and it was to many an unrecognized evil.

George Whitfield was a Christian who advocated and praised the institution of slavery because he believed it helped bring the gospel to pagans.

The Dutch Reformed saw benefits in slavery. Even Black men advocated slavery (some for economic reasons but others as a societal necessity or benefit).

Do there is more to it than a simple "they knew better".

Perhaps abortion will fit into this category. I do not understand how a Christian can be pro-choice. But many are.

 

[Reformed]

There were many reasons why the southern states seceded and went to war, but the tipping point when was Lincoln was elected President. The southern states had good reason to fear that Lincoln would move to abolish slavery. The Republican party was created in 1854 in opposition to slavery. The national mood was moving against slavery and Lincoln's election convinced the southern states that slavery would soon be outlawed. The south didn't have the congressional votes to stop the 13th Amendment. Even though the Democrats were successful in delaying the obvious, it was only a matter of time before the 13th Amendment would pass. The southern states decided on a war of attrition. The South did not want to defeat and occupy the North. The South wanted to inflict as much damage and casualties as possible so as to cause the North to sue for peace.

As far as the issue of states rights as the catalyst for secession, that is a pure canard. It is what Southern politicians fed to their constituents. Most southerners did not own slaves. There was an aristocracy in the South just as there was in the North. The same greed and avarice existed on both sides. Both sides profited from slavery. The South profited because of cheap labor. The North profited from low prices because of cheap labor. While the North had more people calling for the abolishment of slavery on moral grounds, they were despised by the industrialists who wanted to keep the trade going. But the dominoes were falling. Slavery was in the beginning of death throes. Unfortunately, the southern states had no viable economic alternative and believed a military solution would work. They calculated that the North would have no stomach for war; that they would never send their sons to die over the issue of slavery. Their miscalculation was that the North didn't go to war over slavery. Even though the Republican party was created to oppose slavery, the North went to war for political power - to preserve the Union.

The results were horrific. Depending on whose numbers you believe, up to 750,000 combatants died during the Civil War. This does not include all civilian casualties and the economic and social cost of the war. Many people believe that that Civil War was God's judgment on this nation for the sin of slavery. Abraham Lincoln thought so. In his second inaugural address Lincoln said, "Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword as was said three thousand years ago so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.'"

I shudder at the next judgment of God upon this nation for the national sin of infanticide (aka "abortion"), never mind the profaning of the covenant of marriage. That is a different topic but attached to the same. God is not mocked.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

 

[Marooncat79]

I think we all believe slavery was/ is evil.

But we have to keep on mind it was a different worldview and it was to many an unrecognized evil.

George Whitfield was a Christian who advocated and praised the institution of slavery because he believed it helped bring the gospel to pagans.

The Dutch Reformed saw benefits in slavery. Even Black men advocated slavery (some for economic reasons but others as a societal necessity or benefit).

Do there is more to it than a simple "they knew better".

Perhaps abortion will fit into this category. I do not understand how a Christian can be pro-choice. But many are.

AmericN Indians owned slaves as well. Even when the Indians were walking the Trail of Tears, there were Indians with slaves during the trek

 

[Salty]

Reform - very well articulated! I would like to add one thing. If my history is correct -
Not only did the South fear slavery would be outlawed, but that as new States/Commonwealths
were added to the Union- they would be free. Missouri compromise