Featured the "T" of the TULIP

Adam died spiritually right then and there, and now under the curse of sin physically started to die!

 

Amen.

What would that means be, that is different than what you see in the Bible, Derf?

Question:
According to the totality of the Scriptures that you have studied thus far,
Does God save apart from anything a man or woman wishes, or do our wishes determine His?

 

Repeating denials of scripture, i.e. Noah found favor with God, yet was supposedly hating God at all time, is twaddle.

The "T" of the TULIP is false doctrine, a fiction created by men, not found in scripture.

 

Non-stolp denial of scripture after scripture is all the Calvinists can offer. They redefine being spiritually dead, as resulting in total spiritual inability. Hogwash.

They deny we are made alive, after God puts us spiritually into Christ, thus made alive together with Christ. No, they have folks being made alive while not in Christ. Hogwash.

And of course, they deny by grace we have been saved on the basis of faith, because their false doctrine is we are saved then given (instilled via irresistible grace) faith. Hogwash

 

This from the Calvinist who misrepresents total spiritual inability as only meaning humans cannot save themselves. Hogwash
Pay no attention to those who deny Calvinist doctrine, to defend it.

 

The fiction of the gift of faith has been shown to be bogus over and over, yet this Calvinist continues to deny the obvious. How can someone be saved through or on the basis of faith, before they have faith? No answer will be forthcoming.

 

Because salvation itself is not on the basis of faith.
True faith is something that is miraculous and enduring...
even in the face of certain death.

It is definitely not something that we as believers could ever possess apart from God.

Faith does not save...
It's the evidence of it ( Hebrews 11:1 ).

Once again, God gets all the glory for believers being His work ( Ephesians 2:10 ) and we as men have nothing to stand on except His mercy and grace, Van.

" But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." ( Titus 3:4-7 ).

 

What about because it was foreordained before the foundation of the world that the Christ would shed his precious life's blood for the purpose of redemption from the wages of sin, God chose and predestined in the Christ, the redeemer, x number of souls to be a kind of first fruit of his creation, through adoption of sons, after all scripture has concluded all under sin Gal 3:22 including Noah.
Is that adoption of sons the same as the adoption to wit the redemption of the body of Rom 8:23 work backward in Rom 8 is that the manifestation of the sons of God, work backward, is that the hope of 8:20 ??



Did Christ's blood need to be shed in order for Abraham's sins to be forgiven? What about Noah?

What redeems them from death brought forth by their sins?

I had more to ask but have to be out a while.

 

Ephesians 2:4-5 says:
"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—"

Notice what Paul says.
"Even when we were dead in our trespasses." God "made us alive together with Christ."

What is that mechanism, other than God's unmerited grace?

 

Please show me how spiritually dead equals spiritual ability.

 

By your statement we would conclude that by the death of Christ all human sins were entirely paid for. Thus, we would also conclude that Jesus death made all people alive with Christ.

Do you notice that in your narrative, belief is inconsequential.

Let's take a look, once again at our verses in Ephesians 2:4-9. Notice the mechanism.

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Notice that the mechanism that God declares for salvation is... God's grace. God does all the work in saving us. He paid for his children's sins by sacrificial atonement, which cleansed us. He chose us by grace. He made us alive with Christ. He raised us with Christ and He seated us with Christ in the heavenly places. We observe this in these verses.

What do you disagree with in my observation?

 

A person is saved by grace. Paul tells us...twice...for emphasis.

Ephesians 2:5,8 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

 

Let me be clear. I believe Noah was righteous, I believe Noah loved God.

Bot why did Noah love God. 1 John 4 tells us because God first loved Noah. To faith Noah did the things he did. That faith being the faith spoken of in Gal 3:23 The faith of, Before the coming of the faith.

Noah was chosen and called of God for the purpose of God.. Maintaining all living things including man unto the coming of the faith. For a virgin woman to be conceived of a human child out of Spirit and for that virgin to bring forth that human child. For that child to grow into a man and learn through sufferings unto death, the obedience. of faith.
To die the death assigned to sin.

That man child did that. Became obedient unto death even the death of the cross. Phil 2:8
The next word. Wherefore, because of that learned obedience of faith. That is when the faith came. Phil 2:9 God also hath highly exalted him, (Heb 5:7 saved him out of the dead, by raising him from the dead, Quickening him 1 Pet 3:18 1 Cor 15:45.) and given him a name which is above every name:

That is why Noah was righteous.

All of those passages in Heb 11 are To Faith, dative

 

I think that’s more of a question for you than me. What do you propose? It’s obviously a different action on the part of God, since it isn’t just the death of Christ.

Such is a false dichotomy. Just because a person decides he wants God’s mercy, after God has offered it, doesn’t mean he is somehow forcing God to do something He doesn’t want.

But you’ve confirmed for me that the real answer to this perpetual argument between Calvinists and Arminians is in discarding unsupported presuppositions—specifically the one that says God knows who is going to be saved before the people exist.


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