1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Faith # 3

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    New Birth before Faith !

    One of the most obvious truths of scripture, which is that New Birth or being born of the Spirit must have first occurred before one can believe on Christ for Salvation, this is true simply because such an act is pleasing to God Heb 11:6

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    1 Jn 3:22-2337

    22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

    23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

    Now surely from here we see that Believing on the Name of Jesus Christ is a commandment we do or keep that pleases God.

    And yet we know that they which are in the flesh [Unregenerate] cannot please God Per Rom 8:8 !

    Hence if one does please God by by believing on the name of Jesus Christ, then it stands to reason, that such a one had to be not in the flesh, not in a unregenerate state, but one who instead that had been born of the Spirit be able to do it and to please God !
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 1:16 teaches otherwise, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did you read the entire post ?
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes.
    Nothing in the post shows regeneration precedes faith.

    Please answer the question of what "shall be" means in Romans 10:13.
     
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes it is you just can't see it.
    Yes it does. Let's discuss it.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Two things, it is not explicit. And I did not see your answer to "shall be" regarding Romans 10:13.
     
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Okay fine and you won't see my answer to that verse since you refuse to discuss the points of my post.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did not refuse. Your first point does not make sense:
    It is not obvious.
    The third verse in my signature.
    1 John 5:1, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ." Of course a person who is born from God believes in His Christ. How does this fact prove the new birth must occur first in order to have that faith. It cannot.
     
  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here, take another look...

    " Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." ( 1 John 5:1 ).

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ...
    IS born of God...not "will be" born of God.

    " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 ).

    Similar in the above....
    Has everlasting life.

    " Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 ).

    Has everlasting life...not just "will have".


    If someone believes on Christ, it's because they already have everlasting life.
    They've already passed from death unto life.:)
     
    #10 Dave G, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @Dave G
    All and everyone who has been born of God who have eternal life of course believe the gospel. This undeniable truth cannot and does not remove faith in the gospel prior to salvation.
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Faith of Christ or out of Christ !

    All those Christ died for are given a portion or dealt a portion of His Faith, The Faith of the Son of God Gal 2:20

    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    By which He in their stead and in their behalf overcome the World Jn 16:3338

    33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    Now understand, Jesus statement here is not as a Private Individual Person, but as an Head and Representative of His Church, and the Overcoming Faith that He has, it is communicated to All His Members in the New Birth and so they become overcomer's by their Gift of Faith given them from Him, the faith of the Son of God 1 Jn 5:4-5

    4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

    5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

    Its easy to see here that the Faith is born of God !

    In the original Faith of the Son of God is genitive which means:

    For the most part, the genitive is often viewed as the case of possession. In more technical terms one noun in the genitive case helps to qualify another noun by showing its "class" or "kind". The genitive case has more uses than most other cases, but in general a noun in the genitive case helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class".

    Greek Nouns (Shorter Definitions)

    Thats what Kind of Faith Paul had " Of the Son of God" which is a overcoming Faith !
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No I will not, you refuse to discuss my points !
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did, and you did not reply.
    Well?
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The two commandments which those who are born of God obey do not prove that faith does no come before the new birth. Galatians 3:14.
     
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well the natural man cannot please God Rom 8:8, neither can he obey Gods command Rom 8:7 ! You see the light now ? I had already mentioned Rom 8:8 before, you obviously ignored it.
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 8:7-8, ". . . Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. . . ." The condition of man before receiving the Spirit through faith, Galatians 3:14, ". . . receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. . . ."
     
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    530
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those in the flesh are unregenerate and have no faith, they cant please God ! They cant obey God.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,886
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You cannot hear? The promise of the Spirit is through faith. Galatians 3:14 and Romans 4:5, ". . . But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ."
     
Loading...