Calvanism Disproven

[Guido]

Sorry I still didn't read the book.

 

[Alan Gross]

Sorry I still didn't read the book.

The Total Depravity of Man by A. W. Pink

This is the issue, at hand.

Whether human beings are Totally Depraved, or they have self-quickening-from-the-dead power.

Table of Contents:

Chapter 1 - Introduction

Chapter 2 - Origin

Chapter 3 - Imputation

Chapter 4 - Consequences

Chapter 5 - Transmission

Chapter 6 - Nature

Chapter 7 - Impact

Chapter 8 - Enormity

Chapter 9 - Extent

Chapter 10 - Ramifications

Chapter 11 - Evidences

Chapter 12 - Corollaries

Chapter 13 - Remedy

Chapter 14 - Summary

 

[AustinC]

As far as covenants go it is the reformed position that in fact denies the viability of several of the covenants. However, you did not actually respond to my post. Regardless of the errant view of covenants you have the context is still the same.

You are wrong. In context, Jesus is speaking to the chosen people of the Mosaic Covenant and each parable is understood as such. You ignore that context and apply the parable to pagans. You cannot do that in the context of who Jesus is addressing, yet you attempt it and even demand it anyway.

 

[AustinC]

Does God have a reason for choosing certain people? If God has a reason, then he's selecting based on a filter. A filter implies that there is a condition, and God would then be selecting everyone who meets that condition through this filter. Otherwise God did not act with reason, which is to say he has no reason for his choice. And if he has no reason for his choice, then did not perform a free will action.

Does the Bible, God's Word, tell us that God has a reason for whom he chooses? You need to answer that question.
The Bible tells us that God chooses.
The Bible tells us that God saves by grace alone
The Bible tells us that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Guido, why do you demand that God tell you why He chose?
Read the book of Job and see how God responds to Job's desire to ask God "why." Note that God goes and asks Job questions and lays Job to waste so that Job is utterly humbled to the point of silence.
I suggest that you trust what God tells you and stop trying to fill in the mystery of your own ignorance about God's ways.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 2:55 am EDT (Thr) / 11 55 pm PDT (Wed)

 

[Revmitchell]

You are wrong. In context, Jesus is speaking to the chosen people of the Mosaic Covenant and each parable is understood as such. You ignore that context and apply the parable to pagans. You cannot do that in the context of who Jesus is addressing, yet you attempt it and even demand it anyway.

Uh no, I'm not:

Luk 15:1 Now  R26 the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him.


 Luk 15:2 And the Pharisees and the scribes  R1 grumbled, saying,  R2 “This man receives sinners and  R3 eats with them.”

Luk 15:3 So he told them this parable:


That is the context.

 

[37818]

Tell us what these two verses mean to you and explain their connection.

I am of the persuasion the Apostle Paul had Jesus' teaching in mind from Mark's epilogue when He explained his ministry to the Colossians in Colossians 2:23. At the very least the Greek phrase 'παση τη κτισει' "every creature" only occurs twice in the New Testament and in regards to giving the gospel to others.

 

[AustinC]

I am of the persuasion the Apostle Paul had Jesus' teaching in mind from Mark's epilogue when He explained his ministry to the Colossians in Colossians 2:23. At the very least the Greek phrase 'παση τη κτισει' "every creature" only occurs twice in the New Testament and in regards to giving the gospel to others.

*Colossians 2:18-23*

Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

Are you sure you are thinking of Colossians 2:23?

 

[Reformed1689]

So am I to understand the gospel, according to you, has no gift of salvation?

Did I say that? No. I said it was not a gift offered to all.

 

[AustinC]

Uh no, I'm not:

Luk 15:1 Now  R26 the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him.


 Luk 15:2 And the Pharisees and the scribes  R1 grumbled, saying,  R2 “This man receives sinners and  R3 eats with them.”

Luk 15:3 So he told them this parable:


That is the context.

Were all those "tax collector's and sinners" from the covenant people of Israel, or were they godless pagans with whom God has no covenant?

Rev, you are wanting to ignore this important fact that everyone in this chapter is of the household of Israel, God's chosen nation.

 

[Revmitchell]

Were all those "tax collector's and sinners" from the covenant people of Israel, or were they godless pagans with whom God has no covenant?

Rev, you are wanting to ignore this important fact that everyone in this chapter is of the household of Israel, God's chosen nation.

I'm not ignoring it, its not there to ignore. Its not in the passage. Jesus never uses that as a means to understands this passage. You are reading it into this passage because of your reformed presupposition. such eisegetical practices only lead to misunderstanding and failure.

 

[Alan Gross]

The OP should read, "Regeneration before Conversion Disproven".

"Hi, would you like to be Regenerated by the Gift of The Gospel and Go to Heaven?"

Without awareness or acknowledgment of sin, to Convict the lost sinner that they are a Lawbreaker against A Trice-Holy God and His Moral Law of The Universe.

They have never been to Sinah, are still lost in their sins, with no understanding or Trusting The Blood Sacrifice of Christ.

This is "another gospel".

50 years ago, there would be no talk of "an offer" of "a free gift", in Baptist circles.

You certainly don't see anything like it in their Confessions of Faith.

Our church was founded in 1786 and has preached the same Gospel through 40 Presidents.

I'm saying that there is ONE GOSPEL.

Jesus was nailed to the cross BY SIN.

The "debate" is whether a lost sinner does or does not have the ability, of themselves to any degree, to boast of participating in gaining their "Home in Heaven".

To what "degree" do you teach that a sinner participates in their "Salvation"?

That is the degree to which you are a false preacher.

You are telling people that they can obtain Regeneration, by Belief-self-quickening from the dead, or "faith-self quickening", of "trust-self quickening", or "decision-self quickening", etc., prior to any involvement with Conviction of their sin, as the schoolmaster, or Repentance of the sin that nailed Jesus to the cross.

If that person is Born Again, it is IN SPITE of what the false preacher is telling them.

If they remain in their sin and think "it is well with their soul" they will split Hell wide open, as they say.

The Gospel is important to Jesus.

It should be important enough to preachers to get it right.

King James Bible
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19.

The COMMAND to lost sinners is To REPENT of their SIN, never to receive a gift offering.


Chapter 5: Of the Confirmation of the Elect Angels, Of the
Fall of the Non-elect Angels
Chapter 6: Of the Honour and Happiness of Man in Innocence
Chapter 7: Of the Law given to Adam, and Covenant with him
Chapter 8: Of the Sin and Fall of our First Parents
Chapter 9: Of the Nature, Aggravations, and sad Effects of the
Sin of Man
Chapter 10: Of the Imputation of Adam's Sin to all his Posterity
Chapter 11: Of the Corruption of Human Nature
Chapter 12: Of Actual Sins and Transgressions
Chapter 13: Of the Punishment of Sin

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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