Featured Believing in Christ and Calling Upon the Name of the Lord

@Silverhair,
Once again you have shown that you have no idea what Calvinism is and have no interest in finding out.
But read Revelation 7:9-10 and tell me how the great crowd gets smaller or bigger depending on Calvinism or Arminianism.
I praise God every day for irresistible grace, for if He had not chosen me, I would never have chosen Him.
Arminianism seems to postulate a god who does not love anyone enough to save him.

 

Now, to my shame, I have got into this sterile toing and froing again and swapping of insults. It is plainly a complete waste of time and probably sinful and I'm definitely through with it.

 

I find it amazing that you will not deal with the text of the bible but rather accuse me of not understanding calvinism even when I direct you to the calvinist DoG, WCF & LBCF. Those are your views on display there. Deal with them and accept what they actually say.

 

It is the notion of limited atonement with the disallowing of the general redemption that does what you have just accuse Arminianism of doing. No question without God's love we would all perish. 1 John 4:19, ". . . We love him, because he first loved us. . . ."

 

Tabular Comparison of 1646 WCF and 1689 LBCF

 

" notion of"
Limited atonement is hardly a notion. It's clearly taught in the Bible.

General atonement is the philosophy brought in from outside. It requires a person to ignore massive contradictions and ultimately ignore the fact that God has chosen his people from Adam on down throughout the entire Bible. It takes away God as Sovereign cause agent and makes God into a passive being who is dependent on man to act first.

It's not God's love that keeps someone from perishing. It's God's grace that saves and His grace is given to those whom He has chosen to save.

 

Hmm! You did not understand the argument. Maybe you cannot. If you are going to claim an argment is wrong, you have to show you understand it. And put forth a more persuasive argument.

 

I understand the philosophy of General atonement. It posits that Jesus paid for all the sins of the world, but humans either avail themselves of the already paid for action by believing or...they don't. If they don't, then by virtue of unbelieving the human choice nullifies what Jesus did. In some cases the claim is that unbelief is the unforgivable sin and only that sin can trump Jesus payment.

General atonement makes God passive in saving sinners. God knows who will believe, but he is denied action by the supreme power of human free will, which God bows to in deference to not forcing anyone to believe.

The problems and contradictions with this philosophy end up making man the controller and cause of his salvation to which God is effected to act.

Limited atonement is simple. God is Sovereign over every molecule. As Sovereign King God chooses to whom he will extend mercy and to whom he will not. God gives to Jesus all whom he has chosen. God causes his chosen ones to believe when they hear His word speak into their dead hearts. Look up the words chosen, adopted, elected and predestined in the Bible and see the vast amount of passages that express particular atonement by God's Sovereign decree.

You have to purposely close your eyes to miss it.

 

Which are those that trust in His son or do you not believe what the Holy Spirit says? Austin you have been shown a number of times the truths of scripture that show your view is in error yet you still cling to that failed theology. You are trusting in calvinism rather than the bible which means you are holding to another gospel.

 

So you now admit that your version of a sovereign god is actually the author of all the evil that happens in this world and all those that end up in hell really do have an excuse for never having believed in him. You have a warped view of God. You are letting your calvinism control your thinking and thus you miss what the bible says.

You, as they say, are as lost as a ball in tall grass. You have closed your eyes and your heart to the truth.

 

That is a misrepresentation.

Again a
misrepresentation.

Another misrepresentation.

An even worse misrepresentation.

Stupid misrepresentation.

You do not understand my view. Without the general redemption no one has any gounds to believe Christ might have paid for one's sins. None.

 

It's not a misrepresentation at all. It is you, not wanting to look at your position from this viewpoint, but it is not a misrepresentation.

The huge contradiction you have, for which you cannot resolve, is that Jesus has made all humanity perfect in God's eyes, having paid for all sins, yet that payment isn't enough and ultimately doesn't atone for all those who go to hell. When push comes to shove, you really do believe in a particular atonement, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

 

Supposed lie ie still a lie. The word of God does not teach universalism in the general redemption. And without the general redemption no one can know if Christ paid for one's sins. Not even you.

 

Since Christ paid for everyone He paid for @AustinC too.

 

Austin does not want to know the truth as he is locked in his own world of self deception.

 

Again, if you are correct, God is sending fully paid for sins people into hell, or He is sending all people to heaven.

Which one is it, 37?

If you claim that persons go to hell because they refused to believe, then you claim that Jesus didn't fully pay for all sins. In that case Jesus would have only paid for some sins.

But, you have claimed that Jesus paid for everyone, universally.

You have a huge conundrum to resolve.

The only resolution is to admit particular atonement is correct. God chose and God paid for His chosen ones.

 

God does not teach universalism, that is correct, but general redemption teaches universal atonement, making all humanity fully paid for, which is universalism.

Sure I can know. At my reconciliation God spoke my name and I was made alive. I am a new creation. Everything about me is different because God has changed me. It is an obvious difference and I cannot go back.

You see, 37, I am not supreme over God. I am not the driver of the car. I am the passenger whom God chose to redeem. It's all God. God is the cause of my redemption in every way shape and form. The effect of God's work is my full belief in His redemption of me. It is all grace from God towards me, a sinner who does not deserve His grace.

General atonement puts all the responsibility of reconciliation upon man.

Particular atonement puts all the responsibility upon God.

Read this phrase and tell me what God says:

"But God..."

 

Once again we see the error of calvinism and Austin. Austin just proves that scripture is NOT his authority.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
Rom 5:4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
Rom 5:5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

The sad part is that Austin claims to trust scripture and yet he continues to deny any that does not fit his narrative. If we go by Austins logic the only ungodly sinners were calvinists. Further since Christ died for the ungodly and sinners then all those non-calvinists must not be ungodly or sinners and thus did not need a savior as they were already bound for heaven being sinless. But since the bible, which Austin denies, says we are all sinners that means that Christ did indeed die for all.

Therefore there must be a condition or requirement that must be met for salvation. That requirement is faith in the Son.
Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

That is what the Holy Spirit says but then again He's not a calvinist. According to calvinism one has to be saved before they can believe, which is just another example of their twisting of scripture to fit their theology.

 

Objectively the written word of God does not teach universalism. And without the general redemption being true there is absolutely no objective way to know Christ is one's Savior.

 

"But God" requires that we trust in His son for salvation. "But God" does not believe for us we have to turn to Him in faith.

The Righteousness of God Through Faith

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Now if Austin would only believe the bible rather than his calvinism. "But God", according to calvinism, has blinded his eyes so that he can not see the truth or perhaps it is just what calvin called evanescent faith.