The Pope and self-defense

1. It’s the Pope whatever that means. And yeah, it’s meant as a slight

2. He has his own army

That’s all I will say

 

Just read the article

strong points

 

I cannot find the original statement from Francis, but read a couple of responses to it, including the one in the OP.

As best as I can tell, he didn’t say you couldn’t be a Christian if you supported gun rights, but rather its hypocritical for Christians to support the gun industry. Of course, all pointed out Francis is calling his security detail (and himself) hypocrites since they carry guns.

This has been a fierce debate within Christianity since the first century when Roman soldiers came to believe Christ as Savior.

Christians should expect persecution, as taught by Jesus and the Apostles, and essentially passively accept such persecution for the cause of Christ and many believed, and continue to believed, Christians should never engage in violent acts under any circumstance.

Others believe we shouldn’t engage in violence if we are suffering for the cause oif Christ, but force is acceptable in defense of our families.

The US is unique as a country where the right to self defense with firearms is part of our founding constitution.

peace to you

 

There should be an M240 Bravo in every home, minimum. Belt fed, full auto, 30 cal.
A heavily armed populous prevents violence and promotes peace.

 

The above sentiments are viewed by some Christians to be shameful and a betrayal of the commands of non violence found in scripture.

It seems the pope was referencing that belief.

peace to you

 

Right, 300 million guns in the US and peace reigns from coast to coast.

peace to you

 

When there’s 300 billion guns in the US, people will be too respectful to even twitch funny, let alone commit a crime.

Guns bring people together, or else.

The lion will lay down with the lamb......or else.

 

Did Jesus teach passive endurance of persecution? I’d say follow the commands of Jesus…. or else.

peace to you (with or without guns)

 

So, you believe the answer to crime is that every adult American should own 1000 guns? Really? 1000 guns? Should they all belt fed, fully automatic or can some of them be magazine fed? How about revolvers? Haven’t seen any belt fed shotguns but I have heard fully auto shot guns with 50 round drums. Have you seen belt fed shotguns?

I doubt your premise that crime would cease if everyone owned guns, but you may be correct that everyone would live in fear of twitching funny.

That really isn’t the question of the OP. Is Francis correct that Christians shouldn’t own guns (for self defense) and shouldn’t engage in violence per the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ?

peace to you

 

You obviously didn’t get the joke.

The fact that there are more guns in America than people, shouldn’t everyone be dead already. Why is it trillions of responsible gun owning hours is ignored by you.

Individual Christians can decide to be passive and not enforce their right of self defence, that’s great, preferable even. But at a societal level it will cause more death and destruction, as proven from societies past.

 

Put it this way, if the Chinese people were as heavily armed as Americans, do you think the Communists would have a snowballs chance at inflicting all their death and enslavement?
A heavily armed People is a good deterrent against many great evils.

Until the Lord returns, the People should maximise their firepower on principle.

As Individual Christians, it’s best not to bloody our hands with the blood of the stupid, but prefer martyrdom.

 

I totally missed the joke.

I haven’t ignored anything. I’m pro 2nd amendment. I’m responding to the OP concerning what Francis said.

peace to you

 

I support the gun industry like I support the knife industry and the hammer industry. All of them provide essential tools for daily life.

 

Wonderful. Now back to the OP.

Did Jesus teach His followers to endure persecution passively, never returning evil for evil, never engaging in violence?

peace to you

 

Yes He did.

 

Agreed. So the question becomes can a person follow the commands of Jesus to passively endure persecution and never engage in violence and also shoot people?

Salty posted a meme “no trespassing: survivors will be prosecuted”. Now I suspect he was making a joke, I hope he was was, but that is an attitude many Christians seem to have.

There is very little I agree with Francis about, but he did not appear to say you can’t be a Christian and support gun manufacturers, he said it was hypocritical.

peace to you

 

For an individual believer to tolerate persecution of himself is great virtue. For him to tolerate the persecution and suffering of others is not.