40%?

[Van]

No you haven’t. You attempt to negate the truth by limiting the discussion to one type, LFp.

Ignoring the truth about child slave labor in the production of EV is sickening.

Every person that purchases an EV is supporting child slave labor that produces a vehicle far less efficient than gas vehicles so they can pat themselves on the back about their “carbon footprint” to solve a problem (climate change) that doesn’t exist.

EV batteries are full of dangerous chemical/minerals /heavy metals that will, eventually, spill into the environment when the battery ruptured like every other battery ever produced ruptures.

EV batteries cannot be recycled. In 12-15 years we will have an environmental catastrophe that will literally make large portions of the planet uninhabitable.

peace to you

You negate the truth by introducing non-germane strawman arguments.

You claim to be able to read minds, stating an ulterior motive for buying a BEV. Falsehood to the max.

Reducing LA basin air pollution saves lives.

LFP batteries do not contain dangerous chemical/minerals/heavy metals. So yet another false claim.

LFP batteries can be disposed without harm to the environment. The issue right now is the disposal cost is too high.

 

[Reynolds]

If your modern home has a 240 V, 40 Amp breaker circuit, it can power a 6.6 KWh On Board charger.
If your modern home has a 240V, 30 Amp breaker circuit, it can power a 5.7 KWh On board charger.

So now you have gone back to the slowest level 2 charger specs. How many unoccupied 240v circuits do most houses have? Just a 240v plug sitting around waiting for someone to plug something in it?
If you have a 200 amp panel with: electric water heater, or 2, heat pump, electric oven, electric dryer, and all normal 120 v stuff, do the math. Let's not even think about the heat strips kicking in on the heat pump.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So now you have gone back to the slowest level 2 charger specs. How many unoccupied 240v circuits do most houses have? Just a 240v plug sitting around waiting for someone to plug something in it?
If you have a 200 amp panel with: electric water heater, or 2, heat pump, electric oven, electric dryer, and all normal 120 v stuff, do the math. Let's not even think about the heat strips kicking in on the heat pump.

Absolutely correct… so be prepared to rewire the entire house putting in a much larger panel that is accommodating and that is not cheap. Why the copper wire alone is quite expensive, then the larger panel board, circuit breakers, labor, permits (providing the local codes allow for it) etc. I’d also consider at the very least Surge Protection, independent disconnect switches at local high load draw areas ( besides the circuit breakers in the panels) and maybe put in solar panels to help defray the extra electrical costs. Now I haven’t mentioned a generator yet… and does all that increase your insurance? Joe Biden going to pick up the bill?

 

[JonC]

In commenting about the UAW strike against auto makers, a concern was mentioned about a 40% reduction in the number of autoworkers if the USA transitions to BEV's.

Now we definitely know where some of the anti-BEV propaganda is coming from. On one hand, we are told BEV's are two expensive for ordinary people to buy. But BEV's cost about $10,000 more than similar fossil fueled vehicles.

Question, why do BEV's cost more with far fewer parts and subsystems and labor. Lets say a BEV battery costs about $165 per KW-h and they need 90 KW-hs of battery to needed range, 300 miles plus. That works out to about $15,000 for the battery. And since the actual much simpler vehicle should cost say 25% less, then the cost differential should be less than $5,000. Easily recovered in a few years of operating cost savings.

In summary, a nice fossil fuel car should be about $40,000 and a nice BEV should be about $45,000.

Part of the reason is the cost of batteries. The cost of lithium, cobalt and nickel remain high. The catch 22 is more demand on resources will keep the costs up. The demand for lithium is growing, but mining lithium is not environmentally friendly. We (well....maybe Africa) need more lithium mining.

 

[KenH]

We (well....maybe Africa) need more lithium mining.

Or right here in southern Arkansas:

(From Arkansas to Argentina, Lithium Boom Players Shift Focus To Faster Production) From Arkansas to Argentina, Lithium Boom Players Shift Focus To Faster Production

 

[Reynolds]

We have been all through this. I have rebutted your false claims time and time again. LFP batteries are not mined by child labor. Full Stop.

Really?
From Artisanal Mines to Electric Cars.

 

[canadyjd]

You negate the truth by introducing non-germane strawman arguments..

Oh, so you believe child slave labor in the mining operations to produce these inefficient, hazardous batteries is “non germane strawman arguments”

Shame, shame, shame

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Really?
From Artisanal Mines to Electric Cars.

Great post. Some see the truth as nongermane strawman arguments.

peace to you

 

[Van]

So now you have gone back to the slowest level 2 charger specs. How many unoccupied 240v circuits do most houses have? Just a 240v plug sitting around waiting for someone to plug something in it?
If you have a 200 amp panel with: electric water heater, or 2, heat pump, electric oven, electric dryer, and all normal 120 v stuff, do the math. Let's not even think about the heat strips kicking in on the heat pump.

1) The lowest level 2 Charger is 3.3 KW.
2) My son's house has an unoccupied 240 Outlet as his dryer is natural gas. I have no idea how many more houses have unoccupied 240 V outlets.
3) Unused 240V outlets are locked in laundry rooms and at the back of garages, inside the residence of "balanced power homes."

 

[Van]

Really?
From Artisanal Mines to Electric Cars.

LFP batteries do not have cobalt. False claims are not consistent with Christ's commands.

 

[Reynolds]

1) The lowest level 2 Charger is 3.3 KW.
2) My son's house has an unoccupied 240 Outlet as his dryer is natural gas. I have no idea how many more houses have unoccupied 240 V outlets.
3) Unused 240V outlets are locked in laundry rooms and at the back of garages, inside the residence of "balanced power homes."

So, now you are going down to virtually the slowest level 2 charger. Why you burning natural gas? Thought you wanted away from fossil fuels?

 

[Van]

Part of the reason is the cost of batteries. The cost of lithium, cobalt and nickel remain high. The catch 22 is more demand on resources will keep the costs up. The demand for lithium is growing, but mining lithium is not environmentally friendly. We (well....maybe Africa) need more lithium mining.

"...mining lithium is not environmentally friendly." The use of undefined claims does not move the ball. Anyone can claim any mining, say of copper or iron, is not environmentally friendly.

 

[Van]

So, now you are going down to virtually the slowest level 2 charger. Why you burning natural gas? Thought you wanted away from fossil fuels?

One falsehood after another with no quotes.
A 5.7 KWh on board charger is not "virtually" the slowest level 2 charger!
My house is a balanced power house. If I have an electrical outage, I can still heat food and water. But my oven will not work or my forced air heater. Not a big problem in Southern California.
I want a backup plan for when and if fossil fuel becomes unavailable. However, due to national security, I want the USA to be energy independent in the here and now.

 

[JonC]

"...mining lithium is not environmentally friendly." The use of undefined claims does not move the ball. Anyone can claim any mining, say of copper or iron, is not environmentally friendly.

The Social and Environmental Impacts of Lithium Mining The Paradox of Lithium

South America's 'lithium fields' reveal the dark side of electric cars

The Lithium Gold Rush: Inside the Race to Power Electric Vehicles (Published 2021)

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/12/1131...resents-a-climate-versus-environment-conflict

The spiralling environmental cost of our lithium battery addiction

The Environmental Impacts of Lithium and Cobalt Mining | Earth.Org

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...48/red-cobalt-congo-drc-mining-siddharth-kara
Cobalt Mining: The Dark Side of the Renewable Energy Transition | Earth.Org

Why Cobalt Mining in the DRC Needs Urgent Attention

For Your Phone and EV, a Cobalt Supply Chain to a Hell on Earth

Cobalt mining for Big Tech is driving child labor, deaths in the Congo

The dangers of cobalt mining in the Congo | News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/cobalt-mining-transforms-city-democratic-republic-congo-satellite/story?id=96795773

The DRC Mining Industry: Child Labor and Formalization of Small-Scale Mining

Life cycle assessment of cobalt extraction process

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/idaho-cobalt-mining-devastated-local-water-revisited-greener/story?id=88754951

The toll of the cobalt mining industry on health and the environment

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Great post. Some see the truth as nongermane strawman arguments.

peace to you

fire hazards of lithium ion batteries - Google Search

 

[JonC]

fire hazards of lithium ion batteries - Google Search

They are not allowed in many public garages in Charleston because of fires. Apparently salt water is an issue.

Also, we have several EV's at my employment. They are not allowed inside the fence per DOE guidance. While they don't have more fires (except the salt water issue) they do burn too hot to allow inside the fence to nuclear facilities.

Funny thing is.....we lease EV's we can't really use for political reasons. The goal is to have 90% EV's.....meaning we would only be able to use 10% of the vehicles leased with tax dollars. Crazy, huh.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

One falsehood after another with no quotes.
A 5.7 KWh on board charger is not "virtually" the slowest level 2 charger!
My house is a balanced power house. If I have an electrical outage, I can still heat food and water. But my oven will not work or my forced air heater. Not a big problem in Southern California.
I want a backup plan for when and if fossil fuel becomes unavailable. However, due to national security, I want the USA to be energy independent in the here and now.

Oh then you can use coal to make the country energy independent as we have the most rich reserves of any country on the globe, we just need to filter it properly. That would solve many problems and provide jobs to Americans. Biden should know that coming from Scranton PA

 

[Van]

Oh, so you believe child slave labor in the mining operations to produce these inefficient, hazardous batteries is “non germane strawman arguments”

Shame, shame, shame

peace to you

So you believe in child slave labor, and exploiting people of color. Anyone can make "non-germane strawman arguments" especially dimwits.

LFP batteries have no colbalt! None! Zip! Nada!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They are not allowed in many public garages in Charleston because of fires. Apparently salt water is an issue.

Also, we have several EV's at my employment. They are not allowed inside the fence per DOE guidance. While they don't have more fires (except the salt water issue) they do burn too hot to allow inside the fence to nuclear facilities.

Funny thing is.....we lease EV's we can't really use for political reasons. The goal is to have 90% EV's.....meaning we would only be able to use 10% of the vehicles leased with tax dollars. Crazy, huh.

Crazy politics… I agree.

 

[Van]

Oh then you can use coal to make the country energy independent as we have the most rich reserves of any country on the globe, we just need to filter it properly. That would solve many problems and provide jobs to Americans. Biden should know that coming from Scranton PA

Why do these folks bother to post one obvious falsehood after another? Did this assertion come with a quote as to using coal? Nope. Why has this thread been flooded with falsehoods?