Here is an article concerning the slow adoption of the LFP battery technology.
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- Thread starter Van
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I am not attacking the batteries.
I posted an article written by a scientist stating that lithium mining in the United States needs to be improved. I posted another concerned about lithium mining and phosphate mining in Florida.
You are stating the science is wrong. It could be. Take it up with the scientists, not me.
How do you get the power to charge your batteries?
Why not address my point you are attacking LFP batteries using attacks on mining in general and attacks on more toxic materials. Disingenuous in my book.
Why single out Lithium mining over and against mining in general? We can always strive to do better.
What specifically did I say was wrong with science. Please provide the quote.
Lastly you again ask the same question I answered in post 74. Disingenuous in my book.
To restate for the umpteenth time,
I support a market driven transition to BEV's powered by LFP batteries produced in the USA without support from China.
I reject ev’s and promote more and non stop drilling in America
You mean you don’t like battery operated, government forced fed vehicle platforms that are over priced, and not well constructed and planned?!? come on, aren’t you just itching to drive a Tesla?
More mind reading, which is not reassuring.
Why not provide the links I am requesting?
1) The one article addressing lithium mining in Florida
2) The post where I supposedly attacked science.
Phosphate mining in Florida. Lithium mining in Nevada.
The topic was that lithium mining methods need to be improved as more lithium will be needed as demand increases. The mining was in Nevada. Then there was an issue with phosphate mining, as demand will increase (although phosphate is not unique to batteries) and Florida was given as an example.
You didn't attack the scientists' articles. You pretended they simply did not exist.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
There is no “market driver” move. These companies are heavily subsidized by tax payers to produce the cars.
And even if they weren’t, but they are, why support a product that uses child slave labor in the production. Denial of facts isn’t a real argument.
Some are simply willfully ignorant, full of pro-EV propaganda, and oblivious to the SCIENTIFIC FACTS concerning climate and the hazards these vehicles pose.
peace to you
You need to stop posting as if you are a mind reader.
I cannot address your claims about the science I supposedly attacked or ignored because you did not post the link (one link) to the article about Lithium mining environmental impacts in Nevada.
Here is a quess:
Wilbert cited several reasons he is against the lithium mine: environmental impacts to sage grouse and antelope, potential water pollution for surrounding communities and cultural issues for the local indigenous community, which considers the land on and around Thacker Pass sacred burial grounds.
However this snippet cannot be the one supposedly in view because I addressed "habitat loss" (sage grouse and antelope).
Yes mining in general posses potential water pollution, but I addressed mining in general. I would not call cultural issues (NIMBY assertions) as scientific.
Here is a snippet from another article concerning Thacker Pass:
Approval for these permits comes after an extensive application review and revision process, as well as months of public engagement with the Orovada community and the Fort McDermitt Paiute and Shoshone Tribes. All three permits, which are required for Lithium Nevada to start construction and operate the mine, come after NDEP determined the project can operate in a way that protects public health and the environment.
I am not trying to read minds. I am reading the peer reviewed articles that were posted.
Did I say all EV's depend on child labor? No.
Did I say that mining lithium was worse for the environment than mining copper? No.
Did I talk about batteries produces in China? No.
YOU brought up all of that against me while complaining about others doing the same to you.
I posted peer reviewed articles by scientists raising concerns that increasing EVs will increase demand for resources and that this (particularly lithium mining in the US) will increasingly harm the environment.
You want us to stop members from bringing up cobalt mining since you have shifted to LFP batteries produces in the US.
But YOU do the same with me....I provided articles concerned with increasing lithium mining in the US and you talk about cobalt and China.
What JonC posted, "You didn't attack the scientists' articles. You pretended they simply did not exist."
That Sir is claiming to read my mind.
I did not say JonC addressed child labor.
I did not say you claimed lithium mining was worse than mining in general. I asked what was worse about lithium mining than mining in general, and I did not see any specific answer.
I did not say JonC talked about batteries produced in China.
Thus I did not bring these claims against you. I did claim others were using false claims such as supporting BEV s supports child slave labor.
I did not shift to LFP batteries. In post 17 I indicated LFP batteries did not depend on child slave labor in response to post #15.
I want other posters to stop claiming supporting BEV's meanings supporting child slave labor. That is a fiction. Does anyone claim flying in jet airliners supports child slave labor? Selectively bashing BEV's and ignoring vehicles that use no more than other modes of transportation is obviously propaganda from those invested in fossil fuel.
"Lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery packs are creeping into EVs from Ford, Tesla, Rivian, and more. "
"Rivian will deliver its first vehicles with lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery packs in early 2024."
"Tesla uses LFP batteries in the base Tesla Model 3, and why Ford switched to the same in its base Mustang Mach-E in May."
The fly in the buttermilk is that China influences control over these batteries (by producing or owning the design and manufacturing process). Just when America will start producing its own LFP batteries is unknown.
"Rivian will deliver its first vehicles with lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery packs in early 2024."
"Tesla uses LFP batteries in the base Tesla Model 3, and why Ford switched to the same in its base Mustang Mach-E in May."
The fly in the buttermilk is that China influences control over these batteries (by producing or owning the design and manufacturing process). Just when America will start producing its own LFP batteries is unknown.
"The Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) battery chemistry nearly doubled its share in the global passenger xEV (BEVs, PHEVs, HEVs) battery market since January 2021, but it's very China-centric.
According to Adamas Intelligence, LFP's share increased from 17% in January 2021 to 26% in January 2022 and most recently accelerated to 31% as of September 2022. This means that almost a third of all xEV batteries are LFP."
The market should stall until American LFP batteries become available, we do not need another dependence upon China.
According to Adamas Intelligence, LFP's share increased from 17% in January 2021 to 26% in January 2022 and most recently accelerated to 31% as of September 2022. This means that almost a third of all xEV batteries are LFP."
The market should stall until American LFP batteries become available, we do not need another dependence upon China.
Because I am not attacking LFP batteries, not an I speaking of mining in general.
I posted a few peer reviewed articles by scientists concerned with the environmental impact of lithium and phosphate mining in the US as the demand increases for those resources.
I like EV's (even non-LFP batteries). I like LFP batteries because they are the better of the EV batteries available.
I also like combustion engines. I wouldn't want my Wrangler or Challenger to be an electric vehicle (I like how my Challenger sounds when I punch the gas....and I'm not sold on an electric Jeep as I don't know the impact when I take it off road). I have a Latitude which I wouldn't mind being electric.
I think my preference is hybrid. I like the idea. Plus there isn't a grid concern.
But I am not going to be willfully ignorant about natural resources and environmental impact.
I am hoping LFP batteries will be a solution for solar panel storage. I have been waiting on the tech to become better before adding a backup supply to my system.
Where does your power (to charge your battery) come from?
I am waiting also, hoping Mr. Musk come through.
I answered your last question, thus you seem to be practicing willful ignorance to ask that question after it has been answered.