The J6 tapes finally released

[JonC]

Point proven. Anything against the narrative of the alt-left presented to you, you immediately give/buy the alt-left response.

No, I reject the alt-left narrative on anything (I actually don't know the left narrative in these instances).

The alt-left presents Jan 6 as an insurrection with most of the participants as traitors

But most were protestors. Most who entered the Capitol, IMHO, got caught up in the thing. They are guilty, obviously, of trespassing.....but that's it.

I don't believe most were beating cops, carrying weapons, breaking windows, or trying to enter the Senate chamber.


The left uses facts, but they create a false narrative

The alt-right denies facts (like those videos) and creates a false narrative.


Ultimately the left wins because only a fool would choose a false narrative knowing it is false

You cannot watch Babbitt stepping through that window and at the same time believe she was not stepping through that window.

You cannot watch the officer motioning to a group of other officers, and how they responded, and at the same time believe the officer was motioning the rioters to the Capitol.


To do so is to accept lies, willingly, knowing they are lies. And that is a forfeiture of integrity to support a team. But that support fails because most are not that dishonest (others can see the videos as well).

 

[JonC]

@Mikoo ,

You have fallen for a common fallacy - that if somebody does not hold your position then they hold the other position.

The truth, however, is that I disagree with the alt-right and the left (to include the "far left") because I find them equally dishonest.

As a Christian, and as a human being who values integrity, I believe that we have to deal with Jan 6 honestly.

@Revmitchell posted that Babbitt was not trying to enter the Senate Lobby but was instead trying to keep others from doing so. The problem here is that Babbitt was shot already having partially entering the Lobby, her left leg on the other side of the door as she was stepping through.

My comment was based on the video of Babbitt being shot while actually stepping through, with her left leg on the other side and body elevated over the door handle.

Me comment that the officer was not waving the crowd to the Capitol is based on a different video (both posted here side by side) that actually showed the officer was motioning at other officers who responded to him. The initial video only showed an officer motioning and a crowd, but left out the important part as it wasn't in frame (which allowed others to create whatever narrative they wanted).


I did admit my bias. But supporting law enforcement (and military) is not a leftist ideal. It is a conservative right value (and one the alt-right has abandoned).

But even here I admit that it seems more logical to me to conclude the officer was striking people trying to drag the fallen officer down the stairs instead of beating an unconscious woman. Having been in the military and known police officers it seems to me that we have a common goal of protecting our injured. It does not make sense to me that it was an unconscious woman being struck instead of those dragging off the officers fellow officer. That is subjective, but not based on any narrative (just the video).

Likewise, we know the officer repeatedly told Chansley to vacate the building. That he followed him rather than initiating violence seems more logical to me than the officer giving Chansley a guided tour. That is subjective, but it doesn't make sense to be that the officer would be giving Chansley a tour of the Capitol while telling him that he needed to leave the building. Nothing to do with any narrative.



Let's start with the first video I posted.

Babbitt is climbing through a window with her left leg on the other side of the door when shot. Explain to me how Babbitt's feet ended up above the door handle, her left foot, shin, and knee on the other side of the door, yet she was not trying to enter.

I'll consider your explanation as possible .... As long as it is actually possible given the video.

 

[Mikoo]

But, I am not presenting the left version.

The left (I think they are all "alt" reality) presents Jan 6 as an insurrection.

I watched those videos and stated what they contained.


Let's look at the first. You tell me how it is the "alt-left" version.


The video shows Babbitt approaching the left door to the Senate Lobby, climbing up to the point here feet are at the bottom of the window frame, and then stepping through the window with her left foot and being shot having partially entered the room.

That is not opinion. That is not a version. That is what the video shows (that is undeniable).

The other version is that Babbitt was not trying to enter the Senate Lobby.


Ok...your turn. How is an actual video showing Babbitt climbing through a window a "version"??

How is the "alt-right" narrative stating something proven false not a lie?????

I mean....we all see the video. We all see her left leg through that window.

Just keep digging the whole...

 

[Mikoo]

No, I reject the alt-left narrative on anything (I actually don't know the left narrative in these instances).

The alt-left presents Jan 6 as an insurrection with most of the participants as traitors

But most were protestors. Most who entered the Capitol, IMHO, got caught up in the thing. They are guilty, obviously, of trespassing.....but that's it.

I don't believe most were beating cops, carrying weapons, breaking windows, or trying to enter the Senate chamber.


The left uses facts, but they create a false narrative

The alt-right denies facts (like those videos) and creates a false narrative.


Ultimately the left wins because only a fool would choose a false narrative knowing it is false

You cannot watch Babbitt stepping through that window and at the same time believe she was not stepping through that window.

You cannot watch the officer motioning to a group of other officers, and how they responded, and at the same time believe the officer was motioning the rioters to the Capitol.


To do so is to accept lies, willingly, knowing they are lies. And that is a forfeiture of integrity to support a team. But that support fails because most are not that dishonest (others can see the videos as well).

and digging..

 

[Mikoo]

@Mikoo ,

You have fallen for a common fallacy - that if somebody does not hold your position then they hold the other position.

The truth, however, is that I disagree with the alt-right and the left (to include the "far left") because I find them equally dishonest.

As a Christian, and as a human being who values integrity, I believe that we have to deal with Jan 6 honestly.

@Revmitchell posted that Babbitt was not trying to enter the Senate Lobby but was instead trying to keep others from doing so. The problem here is that Babbitt was shot already having partially entering the Lobby, her left leg on the other side of the door as she was stepping through.

My comment was based on the video of Babbitt being shot while actually stepping through, with her left leg on the other side and body elevated over the door handle.

Me comment that the officer was not waving the crowd to the Capitol is based on a different video (both posted here side by side) that actually showed the officer was motioning at other officers who responded to him. The initial video only showed an officer motioning and a crowd, but left out the important part as it wasn't in frame (which allowed others to create whatever narrative they wanted).


I did admit my bias. But supporting law enforcement (and military) is not a leftist ideal. It is a conservative right value (and one the alt-right has abandoned).

But even here I admit that it seems more logical to me to conclude the officer was striking people trying to drag the fallen officer down the stairs instead of beating an unconscious woman. Having been in the military and known police officers it seems to me that we have a common goal of protecting our injured. It does not make sense to me that it was an unconscious woman being struck instead of those dragging off the officers fellow officer. That is subjective, but not based on any narrative (just the video).

Likewise, we know the officer repeatedly told Chansley to vacate the building. That he followed him rather than initiating violence seems more logical to me than the officer giving Chansley a guided tour. That is subjective, but it doesn't make sense to be that the officer would be giving Chansley a tour of the Capitol while telling him that he needed to leave the building. Nothing to do with any narrative.



Let's start with the first video I posted.

Babbitt is climbing through a window with her left leg on the other side of the door when shot. Explain to me how Babbitt's feet ended up above the door handle, her left foot, shin, and knee on the other side of the door, yet she was not trying to enter.

I'll consider your explanation as possible .... As long as it is actually possible given the video.

and digging...Nope still doing exactly what I wrote.
Point proven. Anything against the narrative of the alt-left presented to you, you immediately give/buy the alt-left response.

 

[JonC]

Just keep digging the whole...

I am asking you. That is not digging....it is you running.

I gave my view.

The video shows Babbitt being shot while stepping through a window in the left side door, her foot and leg in the Senate Hall side when she was shot. When shot she fell backwards and down (looking at the video, approximately 3 feet).

This tells me Babbitt was stepping through that window.

You say that I (and @Reynolds , who honestly acknowledged what was in that video) are repeating an alt-left view.

But you have not explained yet how Babbitt was NOT stepping through that window.


So as it stands, you seem to have a camp, are able to insult, but lack the backbone to support an actual position.


The point was proven with the video of Babbitt stepping through the window when shot. You may wish it didn't exist, but two videos exist showing that she was trying to enter ....both taken by the rioters.

 

[JonC]

and digging..

Again,

I the videos have been posted on this thread.

I stated what is in the videos.

On two instances my conclusions were an opinion, but I explained how I arrived at that conclusion.

The rest were facts (what is contained in the videos).


You are running scared, tossing insults and trying to hide the fact.

Provide what you see in the videos and how you arrive at your conclusions. Then we can discuss differences.


Let's start with Babbitt.

One video shows Babbitt climbing up and then falling several feet to the ground when shot.

The other video shows Babbitt climb up into the left door window, her feet just above the door handle level, step through the window with her left foot, shot with her left leg inside the door, and fall backwards from approximately 3 feet above the ground.

Defend your position that Babbitt was not trying to step through that window.

Or continue running away. Your choice.


I suspect you will choose the latter, which proves my point. There is the left narrative, the right narrative, and then the truth. You only seem to care about narratives, truth out the window. Not a Christian trait.

 

[Reynolds]

That is the only one left in question.

We have what the officer stated, and the reason the officer gave for his decisions. I'm pro-law enforcement (and pro-military) so I do have my biases. But I grant that issue is dependent in opinion and heresy (for the both of us....you have not seen a tour video either.....all we know is Chansley was repeatedly asked to leave the building. It could have been with a wink and a nod).


But look at the false information that has been disproven simply based on video evidence:

1. Members here claims Babbitt was not entering the Senate Lobby.

The video shows that she was stepping through the window and had partially entered when she was shot.

2. Members claimed that the unconscious woman was beaten and provided a video showing an officer striking at somebody we could not see right by those pulling another fallen officer towards the steps.

No proof of the unconscious woman being beaten, just a narrative.

3. Members claimed the officer was waving the mob to the Capitol.

A video from a different angle shows the officer was actually motioning towards a few fellow officers who responded to him.


Now, you initially believed that last one. I initially believed it too...so you are not alone. But doesn't it bother you that somebody on the alt-right lied to you in order to manipulate you? It bothers me.

I still believe the last one.
Why the left fight so hard to keep tapes secret?

 

[JonC]

I still believe the last one.
Why the left fight so hard to keep tapes secret?

I have no problem with the last one. There isn't hard evidence either way. As it is, I have no reason to doubt the officers reasoning for his behavior.

But all we know is the officer accompanied him and repeatedly said that he needed to vacate the building.

So you and I have a difference of opinion, and come to different conclusions.

We can't say "but not releasing additional video proves (either of our) opinion true".

If more evidence comes out then I could easily change my mind.

 

[JonC]

@Reynolds ,

I am not really interested in the narratives. What I find interesting is the facts. From what I have seen both the left and the right are not trustworthy to provide an accurate narrative.

Remember, Trump told us the crowd wasn't armed, that Babbitt was not entering but just peacefully protesting, and was shot in the head. Then we saw videos with false narratives on alt-right sites.

At the same time the left lied, saying this was an insurrection. They presented all protestors as if they were the armed thugs breaking Capitol windows. And they went on a witch hunt.

As it stands, I do not trust either side to tell me what happened. I just want to see the evidence.

 

[Revmitchell]

.....

 

[Mikoo]

Mod hat on​

Argue positions. Do not call conservatives alt-left or siding with the alt-left when they are not in the left. That equates to lying (calling conservatives "Democrats", supporting the left, repeating leftist views).

Mod hat off​

Funny. Getting rid of my posts is something the alt-left would do. Don't call me a liar. That is what the alt-left does when called out. The validity of my comments stand. YOU have presented/defended nothing but the ALT-Left position.

 

[JonC]

Funny. Getting rid of my posts is something the alt-left would do. Don't call me a liar. That is what the alt-left does when called out. The validity of my comments stand. YOU have presented/defended nothing but the ALT-Left position.

You (with @Revmitchell approval) have made false accusations. What except "lying" describes that behavior?

I opposed the alt-left and the left position regarding Jan 6. But I also opposed the alt-right position.

Saying I presented the alt-left or even left position is a lie. Therefore anybody who says that is a liar.


I merely pointed out what has been objectively proven (the officer outside the Capitol was motioning at a group of officers wearing yellow vests, and Babbitt was entering the Senate Lobby through the left door window). The other two were guesses at what was going on, but I explained my reasoning.

You are making false accusations. Call it what you want. Facts don't care about your feelings.

 

[canadyjd]

…
JonC is, however, honest.
.

Don’t forget modest as well.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Don’t forget modest as well.

peace to you

Well......I wear pants in public .

(People have specific values they prize. In the military honesty was the big one. It actually gets me in trouble at times, but I am honest. Now....patience, modesty, refraining from insults.....those I'm not so good at).

 

[canadyjd]

Well......I wear pants in public .

We are all thankful you wear pants in public. I prefer shorts and T-shirt. I guess I’m following by Fetyerman’s lead

peace to you

 

[Mikoo]

You (with @Revmitchell approval) have made false accusations. What except "lying" describes that behavior?

I opposed the alt-left and the left position regarding Jan 6. But I also opposed the alt-right position.

Saying I presented the alt-left or even left position is a lie. Therefore anybody who says that is a liar.


I merely pointed out what has been objectively proven (the officer outside the Capitol was motioning at a group of officers wearing yellow vests, and Babbitt was entering the Senate Lobby through the left door window). The other two were guesses at what was going on, but I explained my reasoning.

You are making false accusations. Call it what you want. Facts don't care about your feelings.

You called me a liar. Quote my lies I have written in this thread!

 

[JonC]

You called me a liar. Quote my lies I have written in this thread!

Sure.

Getting rid of my posts is something the alt-left would do.

Your posts are not gotten rid of.

YOU have presented/defended nothing but the ALT-Left position.

I denied the left view.

Anything against the narrative of the alt-left presented to you, you immediately give/buy the alt-left response.

I immediately rejected Babbitt false narrative because I had watched the first video before I heard any narrative and knew she was stepping. The second video showed her stepping in as well.

I didn't immediately reject the video of the officer waving people to the Capitol. I realized he was motioning at that group of officers simply because another video (from a protestor) was at the angle where you could actually see that he was motioning to a group of officers and those officers responding.

I didn't immediately reject that an officer best an unconscious woman. But I looked up the video because it sounded very strange given the situation. The video shows an officer striking towards the ground. There is an unconscious woman. There is also an officer in the ground being dragged towards the stairs by the mob. I explained why I believed the officer was not beating an unconscious woman but rather striking at those pulling the already beaten officer.

The last was @Reynolds issue. On that one I pretty much abstain. I know what the officer said, and I know what the alt-right said. But all we know is the officer asked the man to leave and then walked around following the guy. @Reynolds could be right - the officer could be trying to cover. I don't know. I'd like to see more videos on that one


So there are several lies that you posted on the open forum. That sin is on you, and it is something that you need to address in your life.

 

[Mikoo]

Sure.

Your posts are not gotten rid of.
I denied the left view.
I immediately rejected Babbitt false narrative because I had watched the first video before I heard any narrative and knew she was stepping. The second video showed her stepping in as well.

I didn't immediately reject the video of the officer waving people to the Capitol. I realized he was motioning at that group of officers simply because another video (from a protestor) was at the angle where you could actually see that he was motioning to a group of officers and those officers responding.

I didn't immediately reject that an officer best an unconscious woman. But I looked up the video because it sounded very strange given the situation. The video shows an officer striking towards the ground. There is an unconscious woman. There is also an officer in the ground being dragged towards the stairs by the mob. I explained why I believed the officer was not beating an unconscious woman but rather striking at those pulling the already beaten officer.

The last was @Reynolds issue. On that one I pretty much abstain. I know what the officer said, and I know what the alt-right said. But all we know is the officer asked the man to leave and then walked around following the guy. @Reynolds could be right - the officer could be trying to cover. I don't know. I'd like to see more videos on that one


So there are several lies that you posted on the open forum. That sin is on you, and it is something that you need to address in your life.

All true. I stand by what I wrote. Sorry you don't like it. All alt-left positions. You can always delete them if you don't agree. After all, you are a mod.

 

[JonC]

All true. I stand by what I wrote. Sorry you don't like it. All alt-left positions. You can always delete them if you don't agree. After all, you are a mod.

Oh...I don't like it or dislike it. I don't care. I will also not delete it (I think you want me to otherwise you would not keep pretending that I've been deleting your posts .. as if you actually posted real support for your feelings). Truth is only one of your posts are deleted (you quoted @Revmitchell and he deleted that content).

The reason I refuse to delete your posts (other than the one quoting @Revmitchell .... Per BB practice as @Revmitchell deleted his content) is that I want others to see and know your character.

I stated that the left is wrong - Jan 6 was not an insurrection. I stated that I believe most were there to protest peacefully and a minority of bad actors caused damage.

I stated what was in the two videos of Babbitt - verbatim....her stepping up, which leg entered, her head entered, she was shot and fell approximately three feet (based on the door handle) down.

You are claiming that the "alt-left" is the only truthful side.

You are wrong. They didn't lie about that part of the video because they didn't have to. But they also created a false narrative.

So your lies will, of course, go on because they betray your character - they show the world exactly who you are as a person.

I have seen a pastor (or a person who claimed to me a minister) on this board prove by his actions he is not Christian. That person, unless he changes, will (I believe) hear those words "I never knew you". And I pray for him, that he will repent, that he will be saved.


When you lie you do not hurt me (we can all see the videos and most here know that I accurately described them). You hurt yourself. You damage your witness.

Anybody who watches the Babbitt video knows, without a doubt, that you are professing Christ while giving up your integrity for a political position.