-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
. . . supper being ended . . . 99.5% of manuscripts
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
37818
Well-Known Member
The Nestle-Aland, Codex Sinaiticus note, indicates γινομενου to be it's original uncorrected reading.
Greek Concordance: γενομένου (genomenou) -- 7 Occurrences
Englishman's Concordance
γενομένου (genomenou) — 7 Occurrences
Matthew 26:6 V-APM-GMS
GRK: δὲ Ἰησοῦ γενομένου ἐν Βηθανίᾳ
KJV: Now when Jesus was in Bethany,
INT: moreover Jesus having been in Bethany
Mark 6:2 V-APM-GNS
GRK: Καὶ γενομένου σαββάτου ἤρξατο
NAS: When the Sabbath came, He began
KJV: when the sabbath day was come, he began
INT: And having come [the] Sabbath he began
Acts 1:16 V-APM-GMS
GRK: Ἰούδα τοῦ γενομένου ὁδηγοῦ τοῖς
NAS: Judas, who became a guide
KJV: which was guide
INT: Judas having become guide to the [ones]
Acts 25:15 V-APM-GMS
GRK: περὶ οὗ γενομένου μου εἰς
KJV: when I was at Jerusalem,
INT: concerning whom having been on my [stay] in
Acts 28:9 V-APM-GNS
GRK: τούτου δὲ γενομένου καὶ οἱ
NAS: After this had happened, the rest
KJV: when this was done, others also,
INT: This therefore having taken place also the
Romans 1:3 V-APM-GMS
GRK: αὐτοῦ τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος
NAS: His Son, who was born of a descendant
KJV: Lord, which was made of the seed
INT: of him having come of [the] seed
Hebrews 9:15 V-APM-GMS
GRK: ὅπως θανάτου γενομένου εἰς ἀπολύτρωσιν
NAS: that, since a death has taken place for the redemption
KJV: testament, that by means of death, for
INT: so that death having taken place for redemption
Greek Concordance: γινομένου (ginomenou) -- 1 Occurrence
Englishman's Concordance
γινομένου (ginomenou) — 1 Occurrence
John 13:2 V-PPM/P-GNS
GRK: Καὶ δείπνου γινομένου τοῦ διαβόλου
NAS: During supper, the devil
KJV: supper being ended, the devil
INT: And supper taking place the devil
Englishman's Concordance
γενομένου (genomenou) — 7 Occurrences
Matthew 26:6 V-APM-GMS
GRK: δὲ Ἰησοῦ γενομένου ἐν Βηθανίᾳ
KJV: Now when Jesus was in Bethany,
INT: moreover Jesus having been in Bethany
Mark 6:2 V-APM-GNS
GRK: Καὶ γενομένου σαββάτου ἤρξατο
NAS: When the Sabbath came, He began
KJV: when the sabbath day was come, he began
INT: And having come [the] Sabbath he began
Acts 1:16 V-APM-GMS
GRK: Ἰούδα τοῦ γενομένου ὁδηγοῦ τοῖς
NAS: Judas, who became a guide
KJV: which was guide
INT: Judas having become guide to the [ones]
Acts 25:15 V-APM-GMS
GRK: περὶ οὗ γενομένου μου εἰς
KJV: when I was at Jerusalem,
INT: concerning whom having been on my [stay] in
Acts 28:9 V-APM-GNS
GRK: τούτου δὲ γενομένου καὶ οἱ
NAS: After this had happened, the rest
KJV: when this was done, others also,
INT: This therefore having taken place also the
Romans 1:3 V-APM-GMS
GRK: αὐτοῦ τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος
NAS: His Son, who was born of a descendant
KJV: Lord, which was made of the seed
INT: of him having come of [the] seed
Hebrews 9:15 V-APM-GMS
GRK: ὅπως θανάτου γενομένου εἰς ἀπολύτρωσιν
NAS: that, since a death has taken place for the redemption
KJV: testament, that by means of death, for
INT: so that death having taken place for redemption
Greek Concordance: γινομένου (ginomenou) -- 1 Occurrence
Englishman's Concordance
γινομένου (ginomenou) — 1 Occurrence
John 13:2 V-PPM/P-GNS
GRK: Καὶ δείπνου γινομένου τοῦ διαβόλου
NAS: During supper, the devil
KJV: supper being ended, the devil
INT: And supper taking place the devil
John 13:2
Version Comparison:
The earliest witness of the passage is P66, textual experts place it date it to ~A.D. 100 to ~A.D. 250.
(P66)
2και διπνου γεναμενου του τε δια
βολου ηδη βεβληκοτος εις την καρ
διαν ϊνα παραδω αυτον ϊουδας
σιμωννος ϊσκαριωτης
Philip Wesley Comfort and David P. Barrett, The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House, 2001), 376–378.
(NA28)
2Καὶ δείπνου γινομένου, τοῦ διαβόλου ἤδη βεβληκότος εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἵνα παραδοῖ αὐτὸν Ἰούδας Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτου,
(Robinson/Pierpont Byzantine Textform 2005)
2Καὶ δείπνου γενομένου, τοῦ διαβόλου ἤδη βεβληκότος εἰς τὴν καρδίαν Ἰούδα Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτου ἵνα αὐτὸν παραδῷ,
(TR1550MR Steven’s)
2και δειπνου γενομενου του διαβολου ηδη βεβληκοτος εις την καρδιαν ιουδα σιμωνος ισκαριωτου ινα αυτον παραδω
(TR1894 Scrivener’s)
2και δειπνου γενομενου του διαβολου ηδη βεβληκοτος εις την καρδιαν ιουδα σιμωνος ισκαριωτου ινα αυτον παραδω
(AV 1873)
2And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him;
(Byzantine Text Version)
2By the time supper ended, the devil had put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Jesus.
(NASB 2020)
2And during supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,
NA28 Apparatus:
⸀ γενομενου 66 א2 A D K Γ Δ Θ ƒ1.13 33. 565. 700. 892. 1424. l 844 lat
¦ txt א* B L W Ψ 070. 579. 1241 d r1
Eberhard Nestle and Erwin Nestle, Nestle-Aland: NTG Apparatus Criticus, ed. Barbara Aland et al., 28. revidierte Auflage. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2012), 346.
Important Context:
John 13:26-28
Textual Commentary:
John 13:2. Two textual variants control discussion of this verse: (a) the manuscript evidence for the present participle ginomenou and for the aorist participle genomenou is very evenly divided. The former is often taken to mean that the meal was ‘in progress’ (hence ‘during supper’, rsv), but might mean that it ‘was being served’ (niv); the latter is often taken to mean that supper was over (‘supper being ended’, av), but could be interpreted to mean that supper had just been served. Verses 4 and 26 make it impossible to believe that supper was over, and for that reason many prefer the present participle. Conversely, that makes the aorist participle the harder reading (especially if it is understood as in the av), and for that reason intrinsically more likely to have been changed by a copyist. It is therefore attractive to suppose that the aorist is original, but that it should be understood to mean that supper had just been served (an instance of what has traditionally been called the ‘ingressive aorist’).
(b) There is a nest of variants surrounding the name ‘Judas Iscariot, son of Simon’, but none affects the basic identification of the man. On the bearing of the contest between the genitive and the nominative of ‘Judas’, cf. notes above; on ‘Iscariot’, cf. notes on 6:71.
D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John, The Pillar New Testament Commentary (Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 469.
The variants in Judas’ name and its relation to ἵνα παραδοῖ are numerous and are best seen as attempts to ease the reading adopted in the UBS text. Ἰονδας Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτης (= “Judas son of Simon Iscariot”) is read by L Ψ 0124 1241 etc, and is to be preferred to Ἰούδας Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτης (= “Judas Iscariot, son of Simon”), which is read by p66 א B etc, since it is more difficult and accords with John’s usage elsewhere (6:71; 13:26). Both these readings make Ἰούδας the subject of παραδοῖ. The common reading Ἰούδα … (read by A K Δ TheodGreek etc) sets the name Judas in the gen. case, but curiously in English the sentence may then be rendered in the same way as in the first reading.
George R. Beasley-Murray, John, vol. 36, Word Biblical Commentary (Dallas: Word, Incorporated, 1999).
Version Comparison:
The earliest witness of the passage is P66, textual experts place it date it to ~A.D. 100 to ~A.D. 250.
(P66)
2και διπνου γεναμενου του τε δια
βολου ηδη βεβληκοτος εις την καρ
διαν ϊνα παραδω αυτον ϊουδας
σιμωννος ϊσκαριωτης
Philip Wesley Comfort and David P. Barrett, The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House, 2001), 376–378.
(NA28)
2Καὶ δείπνου γινομένου, τοῦ διαβόλου ἤδη βεβληκότος εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἵνα παραδοῖ αὐτὸν Ἰούδας Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτου,
(Robinson/Pierpont Byzantine Textform 2005)
2Καὶ δείπνου γενομένου, τοῦ διαβόλου ἤδη βεβληκότος εἰς τὴν καρδίαν Ἰούδα Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτου ἵνα αὐτὸν παραδῷ,
(TR1550MR Steven’s)
2και δειπνου γενομενου του διαβολου ηδη βεβληκοτος εις την καρδιαν ιουδα σιμωνος ισκαριωτου ινα αυτον παραδω
(TR1894 Scrivener’s)
2και δειπνου γενομενου του διαβολου ηδη βεβληκοτος εις την καρδιαν ιουδα σιμωνος ισκαριωτου ινα αυτον παραδω
(AV 1873)
2And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him;
(Byzantine Text Version)
2By the time supper ended, the devil had put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Jesus.
(NASB 2020)
2And during supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,
NA28 Apparatus:
⸀ γενομενου 66 א2 A D K Γ Δ Θ ƒ1.13 33. 565. 700. 892. 1424. l 844 lat
¦ txt א* B L W Ψ 070. 579. 1241 d r1
Eberhard Nestle and Erwin Nestle, Nestle-Aland: NTG Apparatus Criticus, ed. Barbara Aland et al., 28. revidierte Auflage. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2012), 346.
א = Sinaiticus (4th century) [numbers = correctors]
Picture
A = Alexandrinus (5th century)
B = Vaticanus (4th century)
D = Bezae/Cantabrigiensis (5th century)
ƒ1 = (Minuscule) 12th–14th centuries
ƒ13 = (Minuscule) 11th–15th centuries
Picture
A = Alexandrinus (5th century)
B = Vaticanus (4th century)
D = Bezae/Cantabrigiensis (5th century)
ƒ1 = (Minuscule) 12th–14th centuries
ƒ13 = (Minuscule) 11th–15th centuries
Important Context:
John 13:26-28
Textual Commentary:
John 13:2. Two textual variants control discussion of this verse: (a) the manuscript evidence for the present participle ginomenou and for the aorist participle genomenou is very evenly divided. The former is often taken to mean that the meal was ‘in progress’ (hence ‘during supper’, rsv), but might mean that it ‘was being served’ (niv); the latter is often taken to mean that supper was over (‘supper being ended’, av), but could be interpreted to mean that supper had just been served. Verses 4 and 26 make it impossible to believe that supper was over, and for that reason many prefer the present participle. Conversely, that makes the aorist participle the harder reading (especially if it is understood as in the av), and for that reason intrinsically more likely to have been changed by a copyist. It is therefore attractive to suppose that the aorist is original, but that it should be understood to mean that supper had just been served (an instance of what has traditionally been called the ‘ingressive aorist’).
(b) There is a nest of variants surrounding the name ‘Judas Iscariot, son of Simon’, but none affects the basic identification of the man. On the bearing of the contest between the genitive and the nominative of ‘Judas’, cf. notes above; on ‘Iscariot’, cf. notes on 6:71.
D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John, The Pillar New Testament Commentary (Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 469.
The variants in Judas’ name and its relation to ἵνα παραδοῖ are numerous and are best seen as attempts to ease the reading adopted in the UBS text. Ἰονδας Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτης (= “Judas son of Simon Iscariot”) is read by L Ψ 0124 1241 etc, and is to be preferred to Ἰούδας Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτης (= “Judas Iscariot, son of Simon”), which is read by p66 א B etc, since it is more difficult and accords with John’s usage elsewhere (6:71; 13:26). Both these readings make Ἰούδας the subject of παραδοῖ. The common reading Ἰούδα … (read by A K Δ TheodGreek etc) sets the name Judas in the gen. case, but curiously in English the sentence may then be rendered in the same way as in the first reading.
George R. Beasley-Murray, John, vol. 36, Word Biblical Commentary (Dallas: Word, Incorporated, 1999).
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
Codex Sinaiticus had a number of “correctors”.
Each corrector used other manuscripts that they were familiar with to make changes to the codex. The codex was first made about 300+ years after the original writings.
View the correctors of Codex Sinaiticus as people who were forming an ancient apparatus.
It’s not as sophisticated as a modern apparatus but it reveals the variants that we see today were present very early in the history of the text.
second line, third letter
Rob
Each corrector used other manuscripts that they were familiar with to make changes to the codex. The codex was first made about 300+ years after the original writings.
View the correctors of Codex Sinaiticus as people who were forming an ancient apparatus.
It’s not as sophisticated as a modern apparatus but it reveals the variants that we see today were present very early in the history of the text.
second line, third letter
Rob
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
This very good image shows both it's original text and the strike out up through it's third letter, NA identified it as being a second corrector.