Is the Church Irrelevant?

[Stopgap]

Begin with the truth that there are no chapters nor verses found in the scriptures for about a thousand years after the final holding of the Catholic Cannon of Scripture.

Of course. I don't believe that I had isolated any verse as a single unit of thought.

And reading over this last page I fail to find any love of the brethren in your replies. You appear as of the world, accusing others of the same guilt you bear.

I suppose that you may have misconstrued my dogmatic stance against tradition as being hateful, but I assure you, that's not the case.

Please take this in the love it is offered. Not condemnation but, maybe self correction?

What is it that I need to be corrected about?

 

[Stopgap]

There is actually enough Scripture that says otherwise.
Things like be of one mind, etc.

Yes, but there were some minor issues that Christians were allowed to disagree on, such as their dietary customs or adherence to a sabbath day. The only thing Paul said was to not let it become a stumbling block to others.

Clearly there is a reference to places of worship made with hands.

The only places of worship to speak of were synagogues and pagan temples. Can you identity a place of worship that was specific to Christians?

 

[Ben1445]

Yes, but there were some minor issues that Christians were allowed to disagree on, such as their dietary customs or adherence to a sabbath day. The only thing Paul said was to not let it become a stumbling block to others.



The only places of worship to speak of were synagogues and pagan temples. Can you identity a place of worship that was specific to Christians?

Acts 2:46
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 5:42
And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Acts 21:27
And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,

Acts 22:17
And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


The word house is a building. And it appears that Paul was in the habit of going into the temple. He was there fulfilling vows.
Acts 24:18
-- Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.

He was not there preaching to the people, he was using the building for its purpose.

 

[Stopgap]

The word house is a building. And it appears that Paul was in the habit of going into the temple. He was there fulfilling vows.

If that's how you wish to interpret it, then go right ahead.

 

[Ben1445]

If that's how you wish to interpret it, then go right ahead.

I see you have your own “truth.”

 

[Stopgap]

I see you have your own “truth.”

I think it says a lot about your spiritual condition by the way you are desperately trying to cling on to your precious church building, even at the expense of distorting Scripture.

 

[th1bill]

Such arrogance and backbiting.

 

[Ascetic X]

I think it says a lot about your spiritual condition by the way you are desperately trying to cling on to your precious church building, even at the expense of distorting Scripture.

I think it says a lot about your spiritual condition by the way you use an image of abolitionist and murderer John Brown as your forum avatar.

John Brown was a terrorist who thought killing people was a valid way to achieve his goals of abolishing slavery. He despised Christian pacifists who sought non-violent methods to bring about emancipation. Brown was the leading exponent of violence in the American abolitionist movement.

John Brown murdered 5 men and was the first person executed for treason in the nation’s history.

Oswald Garrison Villard, the grandson of abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison, wrote a 1910 biography of Brown, criticizing him as a muddled, pugnacious, bumbling, and homicidal madman.

 

[Stopgap]

I think it says a lot about your spiritual condition by the way you use an image of abolitionist and murderer John Brown as your forum avatar.

Were John Brown's methods perfect? Of course not. Did he advocate for a righteous cause? You better believe it.

Would you suggest that the 1.5 million casualties incurred during the civil war weren't necessary to give those dark-colored folk the same human rights that you and I have? Are you prepared to call Abraham Lincoln and all of his associates murderers?

At least the great Reverend John Brown didn't sympathize with Nazis or Klansmen, nor did he make idols out of buildings.

You don't come even close to being half the man he was.

 

[Ascetic X]

Were John Brown's methods perfect? Of course not. Did he advocate for a righteous cause? You better believe it.

Would you suggest that the 1.5 million casualties incurred during the civil war weren't necessary to give dark-colored folk the same human rights that you and I have? Are you prepared to call Abraham Lincoln and all of his associates murderers?

At least the great Reverend John Brown didn't sympathize with Nazis or Klansmen, nor did he make idols out of buildings.

You don't even come close to being half the man he was.

Your avatar is a murderer. The miserable terrorist John Brown made an idol out of killing.

Revelation 22

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[Stopgap]

Your avatar is a murderer. The miserable terrorist John Brown made an idol out of killing.

Your avatar is, at the very least, an insensitive bigot and, at worst, an idolater of man-made structures.

 

[Ascetic X]

Your avatar is, at the very least, an insensitive bigot and, at worst, an idolater of man-made structures.

You are obsessed with attacking church buildings. That is your irrational bigotry. Perhaps your terrorist murderer avatar is appropriate.

 

[Stopgap]

You are obsessed with attacking church buildings. That is your irrational bigotry. Perhaps your terrorist murderer avatar is appropriate.

And you seem to be obsessed with attacking everything that led up to the abolishment of slavery, as imperfect as it may have been. Perhaps changing your avatar to a swastika would be the best representation of what you stand for.

 

[Ascetic X]

And you seem to be obsessed with attacking everything that led up to the abolishment of slavery, as imperfect as it may have been. Perhaps changing your avatar to a swastika would be the best representation of what you stand for.

I have a card that says I am a member of the NAACP.

I oppose racism. You oppose church buildings.

I just hope you do not emulate your terrorist murderer hero John Brown.

 

[Stopgap]

I have a card that says I am a member of the NAACP.

Good.

I oppose racism.

So do I.

You oppose church buildings.

Wrong. I oppose the idolatry of church buildings.

I just hope you do not emulate your terrorist murderer hero John Brown.

I already conceded that he was an imperfect man, but if you want to deny that he fought for a noble cause, then you are contradicting everything you said just now.

 

[Ben1445]

Good.



So do I.



Wrong. I oppose the idolatry of church buildings.



I already conceded that he was an imperfect man, but if you want to deny that he fought for a noble cause, then you are contradicting everything you said just now.

So you think that some people idolize physical buildings, and some people think you idolize John Brown. Looks like a level playing field to me.

 

[Stopgap]

So you think that some people idolize physical buildings, and some people think you idolize John Brown. Looks like a level playing field to me.

You are really off your rocker if you concluded that setting someone else's picture as an avatar makes them an idol.

 

[th1bill]

Were John Brown's methods perfect? Of course not. Did he advocate for a righteous cause? You better believe it.

Would you suggest that the 1.5 million casualties incurred during the civil war weren't necessary to give those dark-colored folk the same human rights that you and I have? Are you prepared to call Abraham Lincoln and all of his associates murderers?

At least the great Reverend John Brown didn't sympathize with Nazis or Klansmen, nor did he make idols out of buildings.

You don't come even close to being half the man he was.

Your attitude is on display.

 

[th1bill]

You are really off your rocker if you concluded that setting someone else's picture as an avatar makes them an idol.

You could/should explain.

 

[Stopgap]

You could/should explain.

Sir, I don't have any beef with you, nor do I wish to have any.