Atonement (Not PSA)

[atpollard]

Lol.... true. I kinda jumped towards the end (figured nobody was reading). But I will pick back up.

Not to derail anything, but just to offer input on why I am reading it and what I am looking for.

I cannot evaluate an idea until you have stated it, then like a Berean, I can take what you say back to Scripture and evaluate how I feel about your observation on that scripture.

“I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." - Genesis 12:3 [NKJV]

Let me offer a specific example for an illustration. You discussed the verse above in relation to the Atonement. I associated that promise of God with Abraham. By extension, I had seen its application to “Jews” and “Christians” (the people of God). I had seen Abraham as a typology foreshadowing Jesus (as the Father of faith).

I had never applied that particular verse/promise of God to the ATONEMENT as a foreshadow of Jesus and redemption until you pointed out that possibility by drawing attention to that verse and Atonement.

Pondering that verse as a possible “mechanism” within the Atonement immediately shed new light on other verses:

John 3:18 [NKJV] "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
[This expresses the same Atonement idea of “blessing” (not judged) those that “bless” (believe) Jesus Christ and “cursing” (already judged) those that “curse” (not believe) Jesus Christ, does it not?]

Matthew 23:37-39 [NKJV] "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'"
[Again, I can see the same Atonement idea repeated … centered on “blessing” or “cursing” Jesus Christ … the rejection of those that “curse” the Christ, just like the promise to Abraham in Genesis 12.]

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

JonC

This has been one of the most thoughtful and engaging conversations on Scripture I’ve had in a very long time. Thank you for that.

~Tony

 

[JonC]

Not to derail anything, but just to offer input on why I am reading it and what I am looking for.

I cannot evaluate an idea until you have stated it, then like a Berean, I can take what you say back to Scripture and evaluate how I feel about your observation on that scripture.

“I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." - Genesis 12:3 [NKJV]

Let me offer a specific example for an illustration. You discussed the verse above in relation to the Atonement. I associated that promise of God with Abraham. By extension, I had seen its application to “Jews” and “Christians” (the people of God). I had seen Abraham as a typology foreshadowing Jesus (as the Father of faith).

I had never applied that particular verse/promise of God to the ATONEMENT as a foreshadow of Jesus and redemption until you pointed out that possibility by drawing attention to that verse and Atonement.

Pondering that verse as a possible “mechanism” within the Atonement immediately shed new light on other verses:

John 3:18 [NKJV] "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
[This expresses the same Atonement idea of “blessing” (not judged) those that “bless” (believe) Jesus Christ and “cursing” (already judged) those that “curse” (not believe) Jesus Christ, does it not?]

Matthew 23:37-39 [NKJV] "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'"
[Again, I can see the same Atonement idea repeated … centered on “blessing” or “cursing” Jesus Christ … the rejection of those that “curse” the Christ, just like the promise to Abraham in Genesis 12.]

Well....now you expect me to express ideas??!!

This is a major part of why I view the promises God made to Abraham to be ultimately to Christ:

"Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as one would in referring to many, but rather as in referring to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ." (Galatians 3:16).


I can see a lot of things that point to the Atonement in the Old Testament. Some of these things are probably just what I am seeing rather than what is actually there. It is too easy when you know the end of the story to find clues in the beginning that may not exist.

But going forward I will try to express more succinct ideas. I was Bob Dylaning (freewheeling) it by starting in creation. But now that's out of my system.

 

[JonC]

JonC

This has been one of the most thoughtful and engaging conversations on Scripture I’ve had in a very long time. Thank you for that.

~Tony

Thank you. I have enjoyed it as well. I am not one to hold my beliefs emotionally (it does not bother me when somebody challenges my beliefs because I have been wrong before... I was a Calvinist, after all ).

I believe it is good to discuss our views with others who hold different positions. It is an opportunity to understand another view and to reevaluate my own.

I appreciate both the kindness in your posting and the honest, straightforward nature of your post.

 

[37818]

Isaiah 53:6, . . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

A penal subscription.