Do Guarding Angels exist?

[Anthony Pritchard]

Or was he rather acknowledging that all things were created for God's glory and praise?

Excellent!

 

[Walter]

I'm going to concede that the reference in Psalms is not clearly an example of angelic intercession. So, I haven't had opportunity to read this thread in its entirety, so I want to give you what appears to me biblical reference to angels interceding on the part of mankind.
Then the angel of the Lord said, “O Lord of hosts, how long will you have no mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, against which you have been angry these seventy years?” (Zechariah 1:12).

So the angel of the Lord intercedes with God, asking him to have mercy on Judah after the seventy years of the Babylonian Exile. What are your thoughts?

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

I'm going to concede that the reference in Psalms is not clearly an example of angelic intercession. So, I haven't had opportunity to read this thread in its entirety, so I want to give you what appears to me biblical reference to angels interceding on the part of mankind.
Then the angel of the Lord said, “O Lord of hosts, how long will you have no mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, against which you have been angry these seventy years?” (Zechariah 1:12).

So the angel of the Lord intercedes with God, asking him to have mercy on Judah after the seventy years of the Babylonian Exile. What are your thoughts?

Walter, Zechariah 1:12 is not an example of angelic intercession.

The figure speaking is the Angel of the LORD, who in the Old Testament is consistently identified with Yahweh Himself, not a created angel.

If this is a pre‑incarnate appearance of Christ (as many conservative scholars hold, myself included - a Christophany), then Zechariah 1:12 is not an example of angelic intercession at all. It is simply an early expression of the same intercessory role Christ fulfills in Hebrews 7:25 and Romans 8:34. The Angel of the LORD consistently speaks and acts as Yahweh throughout the Old Testament, so His words here fit perfectly with Christ’s unique mediatorial office. Scripture never depicts created angels carrying human prayers or interceding on our behalf.

And even if one rejects that interpretation, the text still does not show an angel mediating human prayers. It is a prophetic dialogue within a vision, not intercession on behalf of mankind.

Scripture is clear that only Christ is the mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5). No passage ever depicts angels carrying human prayers or interceding for us.

 

[Cathode]

In prayer we were told to go out in street ministry, me and Nell, to help, to bring mercy.
We had no resources, we were totally reliant on heavenly help, we only went where we were guided. Miracles happened and angels helped us and protected us, we were not there for ourselves but for mercy.
You have a legalist view because angels are just on the page for you, we have seen and relied on their assistance many times.

I should have died a number of times but for the help of the angels.

Yeah, you read the word, but we stood on its promise.

They are “sent to serve those who will inherit eternal life “

God gave the angels to us to serve us and we have used them as servants, servants of mercy.

So you keep legalising the word, and we will keep living it out.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

In prayer we were told to go out in street ministry, me and Nell, to help, to bring mercy.
We had no resources, we were totally reliant on heavenly help, we only went where we were guided. Miracles happened and angels helped us and protected us, we were not there for ourselves but for mercy.
You have a legalist view because angels are just on the page for you, we have seen and relied on their assistance many times.

I should have died a number of times but for the help of the angels.

Yeah, you read the word, but we stood on its promise.

They are “sent to serve those who will inherit eternal life “

God gave the angels to us to serve us and we have used them as servants, servants of mercy.

So you keep legalising the word, and we will keep living it out.

Here we go again, back into the same mystical loop, the anecdotes, the “we were guided,” the “angels helped us,” the “we used them as servants,” the “legalist” accusation, the “we live it out” contrast. It’s the identical pattern every time: Personal supernatural stories, Angels as conversational partnesr, Angels as helpers under human direction, accusation that Scripture‑based correction is “legalism”, claim that experience outranks doctrine.

You're not arguing doctrine. You're not engaging Scripture. You're not even defending a position. You're testifying to a mystical worldview and treating it as normative.

None of your experiences change what Scripture actually teaches about angels. Every example in Scripture shows angels acting at God’s command, not at human direction. They are “sent forth” by Him, not summoned, guided, or used by us. Personal anecdotes don’t override the pattern God has given in His word.

Calling that “legalism” doesn’t change the fact that Scripture never presents angels as servants under human initiative. They serve God, and any help they provide is His mercy, not the result of us directing them. That’s the only framework Scripture gives, and it’s the one I’m going to stay with.

 

[Cathode]

Here we go again, back into the same mystical loop, the anecdotes, the “we were guided,” the “angels helped us,” the “we used them as servants,” the “legalist” accusation, the “we live it out” contrast. It’s the identical pattern every time: Personal supernatural stories, Angels as conversational partnesr, Angels as helpers under human direction, accusation that Scripture‑based correction is “legalism”, claim that experience outranks doctrine.

You're not arguing doctrine. You're not engaging Scripture. You're not even defending a position. You're testifying to a mystical worldview and treating it as normative.

None of your experiences change what Scripture actually teaches about angels. Every example in Scripture shows angels acting at God’s command, not at human direction. They are “sent forth” by Him, not summoned, guided, or used by us. Personal anecdotes don’t override the pattern God has given in His word.

Calling that “legalism” doesn’t change the fact that Scripture never presents angels as servants under human initiative. They serve God, and any help they provide is His mercy, not the result of us directing them. That’s the only framework Scripture gives, and it’s the one I’m going to stay with.

Scripture tells us that God gave tacit authorisation for us to use the angels as our servants.
Since you insist on being a legalist.

He sent them “to serve those who will inherit eternal life “.

Here we go again, back into the same mystical loop, the anecdotes, the “we were guided,”

Ok, so you don’t believe in supernatural spiritual guidance. Now I fully understand where you are at.

You are demonstrating the full bloom of a desupernaturalised mode of thinking.
You read about the supernatural things in scripture, but it’s not your lived reality.

The words must take root not stay on the page to quibble and legalise over.

For many this is the extent of their beliefs, the supernatural aspects of the faith are just mystical hoopla.
Better to start a career as an atheist if that’s the case.

 

[Cathode]

You're not arguing doctrine. You're not engaging Scripture. You're not even defending a position. You're testifying to a mystical worldview and treating it as normative.

What’s “normative “?

I have been reluctant to share most of my spiritual experiences here, simply because of reactions and mockery like yours.

The most skeptical and unbelieving of the gifts and spiritual realities have not been atheists in my experience but Protestants.

It’s been a shocking realisation to me. Most will instantly assign it to the demonic, but almost never allow for good or holy spiritual experience from God.

It’s like they have locked out the supernatural completely as even a possibility, apart from the demonic as the default reply.

If by doctrine people have precluded the supernatural, then the requisite faith for the supernatural to happen is also precluded. Unbelief is institutionalised, that’s not the “ normative “ anyone should be living, this is a self fulfilling prison.

People are completely out of the fight, it is spiritual warfare we are fighting first of all, not flesh and blood, but principalities and powers.

A little aboriginal kid walked up to me the other day with a bag of paint to his face, saying “ I got him “ with an evil laugh and he pulled a finger sigh at me. Spirituality you see the demons, we have the faculties, Grace enlivens those faculties to see the reality.

If people think that the gifts and miracles were only for the apostolic times they are deluded and not in the fight at all.

The world needs the angels, the gifts and the miracles now more than ever before.

The evil people use demons in their service to curse and destroy, we use God’s Holy angels to serve us and take ground against the darkness.
Anyone remotely initiated in spiritual warfare knows this reality.

If Christianity is merely an intellectual exercise for you to legalise text over, then I’m worried for you.

You have been given the text, only what remains is for you to believe it.

 

[Ben1445]

What’s “normative “?

I have been reluctant to share most of my spiritual experiences here, simply because of reactions and mockery like yours.

The most skeptical and unbelieving of the gifts and spiritual realities have not been atheists in my experience but Protestants.

It’s been a shocking realisation to me. Most will instantly assign it to the demonic, but almost never allow for good or holy spiritual experience from God.

It’s like they have locked out the supernatural completely as even a possibility, apart from the demonic as the default reply.

If by doctrine people have precluded the supernatural, then the requisite faith for the supernatural to happen is also precluded. Unbelief is institutionalised, that’s not the “ normative “ anyone should be living, this is a self fulfilling prison.

People are completely out of the fight, it is spiritual warfare we are fighting first of all, not flesh and blood, but principalities and powers.

A little aboriginal kid walked up to me the other day with a bag of paint to his face, saying “ I got him “ with an evil laugh and he pulled a finger sigh at me. Spirituality you see the demons, we have the faculties, Grace enlivens those faculties to see the reality.

If people think that the gifts and miracles were only for the apostolic times they are deluded and not in the fight at all.

The world needs the angels, the gifts and the miracles now more than ever before.

The evil people use demons in their service to curse and destroy, we use God’s Holy angels to serve us and take ground against the darkness.
Anyone remotely initiated in spiritual warfare knows this reality.

If Christianity is merely an intellectual exercise for you to legalise text over, then I’m worried for you.

You have been given the text, only what remains is for you to believe it.

The only text you have been giving is personal experience.

I know people who have experienced aliens too. And drugs.
I know people who are medical experts and hypochondriacs.
I know people who battle the entire world every day, and there is not a person in the world who is not out to get them.

Your experiences are overwhelmingly embellished.

 

[Cathode]

The only text you have been giving is personal experience.

I know people who have experienced aliens too. And drugs.
I know people who are medical experts and hypochondriacs.
I know people who battle the entire world every day, and there is not a person in the world who is not out to get them.

Your experiences are overwhelmingly embellished.

This is where it is better to talk to atheists, you prove my point, the supernatural is just on the page for you and 2000 years ago.

Whilst the mass carnage takes place out there, many “believers” are comfortably insulated and not engaged.
Its all just a nice intellectual exercise.

A journalist asked us what we doing one time at benediction when a priest was with us. She could not relate to seeing street people growling, foaming, writhing, screaming on the kerb.
She said ‘ This is too crazy for me, I’m going ‘ and she left somewhat terrified, like she suddenly found herself in the Middle Ages.

The natural man does not grasp spiritual things, it is foolishness to him. It really is, it does not compute.

You explain and you can even show people, but they will not grasp even what they see with their own eyes.

The inner life is far more confronting than the temporal.

But unless the spiritual is addressed first, no amount of social work will fix the problem.
Break spiritual strongholds first and the rest is relatively easy.
People wonder why faith based ministries work far better, it’s simple, because it addresses the spiritual cause first.
Assuming anyone still believes in the spiritual anymore.

 

[Ben1445]

This is where it is better to talk to atheists, you prove my point, the supernatural is just on the page for you and 2000 years ago.

Whilst the mass carnage takes place out there, many “believers” are comfortably insulated and not engaged.
Its all just a nice intellectual exercise.

A journalist asked us what we doing one time at benediction when a priest was with us. She could not relate to seeing street people growling, foaming, writhing, screaming on the kerb.
She said ‘ This is too crazy for me, I’m going ‘ and she left somewhat terrified, like she suddenly found herself in the Middle Ages.

The natural man does not grasp spiritual things, it is foolishness to him. It really is, it does not compute.

You explain and you can even show people, but they will not grasp even what they see with their own eyes.

The inner life is far more confronting than the temporal.

But unless the spiritual is addressed first, no amount of social work will fix the problem.
Break spiritual strongholds first and the rest is relatively easy.
People wonder why faith based ministries work far better, it’s simple, because it addresses the spiritual cause first.
Assuming anyone still believes in the spiritual anymore.

As has already been pointed out, you confuse the spiritual with the mystical. You are creating your own fantasies.
Insert sarcasm- I just looked out at the road and saw an angel drive by. And who are you to say that I didn’t?

 

[Cathode]

As has already been pointed out, you confuse the spiritual with the mystical. You are creating your own fantasies.
Insert sarcasm- I just looked out at the road and saw an angel drive by. And who are you to say that I didn’t?

So it’s all foolishness to you.

 

[Ben1445]

So it’s all foolishness to you.

Just your fairy tale stories embellished to make it sound like you have something extra special.

“All the members of our church are angels.”
And who are you to say that they aren’t.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Scripture tells us that God gave tacit authorisation for us to use the angels as our servants.
Since you insist on being a legalist.

He sent them “to serve those who will inherit eternal life “.



Ok, so you don’t believe in supernatural spiritual guidance. Now I fully understand where you are at.

You are demonstrating the full bloom of a desupernaturalised mode of thinking.
You read about the supernatural things in scripture, but it’s not your lived reality.

The words must take root not stay on the page to quibble and legalise over.

For many this is the extent of their beliefs, the supernatural aspects of the faith are just mystical hoopla.
Better to start a career as an atheist if that’s the case.

There it is, as expected you have escalated into open accusation, category error, and spiritual posturing. You are no longer talking about angels. You are talking about me. That is always the sign that a mystical worldview has run out of content and has shifted into personal attack.

Hebrews 1:14 says angels are “sent forth to minister.” It does not say they are placed under human direction or that believers are authorized to use them as servants. The text identifies the sender as God, not man. Every example in Scripture shows angels acting at His command, never at ours.

Supernatural reality is not the issue. Scripture is full of it, and I believe every word of it. The issue is authority. Scripture never gives believers the authority to summon, assign, or direct angels. They serve God, and any help they provide is His mercy, not the result of human initiative.

Calling that legalism or desupernaturalised thinking does not change what the Bible actually says. I am staying with the Scriptural pattern: angels obey God, not us.

 

[Cathode]

There it is, as expected you have escalated into open accusation, category error, and spiritual posturing. You are no longer talking about angels. You are talking about me. That is always the sign that a mystical worldview has run out of content and has shifted into personal attack.

Hebrews 1:14 says angels are “sent forth to minister.” It does not say they are placed under human direction or that believers are authorized to use them as servants. The text identifies the sender as God, not man. Every example in Scripture shows angels acting at His command, never at ours.

Supernatural reality is not the issue. Scripture is full of it, and I believe every word of it. The issue is authority. Scripture never gives believers the authority to summon, assign, or direct angels. They serve God, and any help they provide is His mercy, not the result of human initiative.

Calling that legalism or desupernaturalised thinking does not change what the Bible actually says. I am staying with the Scriptural pattern: angels obey God, not us.

Two things can be true at the same time. By obeying us they are obeying God.

“ sent forth to serve those who will inherit eternal life “

I used the example of the waiter, sent forth to serve the customers.
Is the waiter under the direction of the customer or the owner, the answer is both.

Yes, they are ministering spirits, sent forth to minister.

Minister - serve.

The angels are here to serve us, they were sent forth to serve us.

The restaurant owner send forth his waiters to serve the customers, they are sent be under the direction of the customers.

“ sent forth to serve those who will inherit eternal life “

Are you getting it yet, I don’t think it can be explained better than this.

 

[Walter]

Two things can be true at the same time. By obeying us they are obeying God.

“ sent forth to serve those who will inherit eternal life “

I used the example of the waiter, sent forth to serve the customers.
Is the waiter under the direction of the customer or the owner, the answer is both.

Yes, they are ministering spirits, sent forth to minister.

Minister - serve.

The angels are here to serve us, they were sent forth to serve us.

The restaurant owner send forth his waiters to serve the customers, they are sent be under the direction of the customers.

“ sent forth to serve those who will inherit eternal life “

Are you getting it yet, I don’t think it can be explained better than this.

Excellent!

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Two things can be true at the same time. By obeying us they are obeying God.

“ sent forth to serve those who will inherit eternal life “

I used the example of the waiter, sent forth to serve the customers.
Is the waiter under the direction of the customer or the owner, the answer is both.

Yes, they are ministering spirits, sent forth to minister.

Minister - serve.

The angels are here to serve us, they were sent forth to serve us.

The restaurant owner send forth his waiters to serve the customers, they are sent be under the direction of the customers.

“ sent forth to serve those who will inherit eternal life “

Are you getting it yet, I don’t think it can be explained better than this.

Cathode, you have shifted into mockery and condescension, I am not surprised, it is something I have some to expect from failed Catholic arguments. That move signals that you are no longer engaging Scripture at all. You are defending a mystical framework by trying to win the room rhetorically rather than by dealing with the text itself.

Hebrews 1:14 says angels are “sent forth to minister,” and the sender in the passage is God, not man. Every example in Scripture shows angels obeying God’s command, never human instruction. Your restaurant‑waiter analogy is not exegesis; it is imagination. Scripture does not present angels as beings who take direction from humans.

When the argument shifts from Scripture to mocking and personal jabs, it is because the biblical foundation has collapsed. I am staying with the Scriptural pattern: angels obey God, and any help they provide is His initiative, not ours.

End of conversation encountered.

 

[Cathode]

We all serve anyway.
Most of street ministry is bringing Jesus to others, getting rid of self by prayer and fasting.
Asking Jesus to live and reign in us, to walk in our walking and do in our doing, to do as He wants through us.
We are the donkey carrying Jesus to others, and Jesus does the work.

“ It is no longer I that lives, but Christ who lives in me “

Jesus sees through our eyes but we sometimes we see through His eyes. So there is cross over that happens.
We divest self and put on Christ.

If it is generous to handover your human will completely to Jesus, it’s just the generosity of a donkey really. We get more from this, you aren’t just a donkey anymore, you are a donkey carrying Jesus.

So what it is all about is docility, surrendering our human will over to Jesus Divine Will. Sounds easy, but we fight and bite back.

“ Not my will, but yours be done “

We fall in and out of this state, but the idea is to strive to make it permanent.

Our lives mean so much more when we handover total volition and the Divine Will acts.
Things done in the human will have little effect, but things done in the Divine Will keep having an effect infinitely.
We find the ultimate purpose to our life, deep down we know it.
That’s the difference between us acting and Jesus acting.

With Jesus our lives and purpose expand into the Eternal action of God, leaving behind the finite action of man.

 

[Anthony Pritchard]

Cathode, you have shifted into mockery and condescension, I am not surprised, it is something I have some to expect from failed Catholic arguments. That move signals that you are no longer engaging Scripture at all. You are defending a mystical framework by trying to win the room rhetorically rather than by dealing with the text itself.

Hebrews 1:14 says angels are “sent forth to minister,” and the sender in the passage is God, not man. Every example in Scripture shows angels obeying God’s command, never human instruction. Your restaurant‑waiter analogy is not exegesis; it is imagination. Scripture does not present angels as beings who take direction from humans.

When the argument shifts from Scripture to mocking and personal jabs, it is because the biblical foundation has collapsed. I am staying with the Scriptural pattern: angels obey God, and any help they provide is His initiative, not ours.

End of conversation encountered.

We all serve anyway.
Most of street ministry is bringing Jesus to others, getting rid of self by prayer and fasting.
Asking Jesus to live and reign in us, to walk in our walking and do in our doing, to do as He wants through us.
We are the donkey carrying Jesus to others, and Jesus does the work.

“ It is no longer I that lives, but Christ who lives in me “

Jesus sees through our eyes but we sometimes we see through His eyes. So there is cross over that happens.
We divest self and put on Christ.

If it is generous to handover your human will completely to Jesus, it’s just the generosity of a donkey really. We get more from this, you aren’t just a donkey anymore, you are a donkey carrying Jesus.

So what it is all about is docility, surrendering our human will over to Jesus Divine Will. Sounds easy, but we fight and bite back.

“ Not my will, but yours be done “

We fall in and out of this state, but the idea is to strive to make it permanent.

Our lives mean so much more when we handover total volition and the Divine Will acts.
Things done in the human will have little effect, but things done in the Divine Will keep having an effect infinitely.
We find the ultimate purpose to our life, deep down we know it.
That’s the difference between us acting and Jesus acting.

With Jesus our lives and purpose expand into the Eternal action of God, leaving behind the finite action of man.

Cathode, you have abandoned the question entirely. None of this devotional language about donkeys, docility, “cross‑over,” or surrender addresses the Scriptural issue under discussion. You have shifted from exegesis to mysticism, from argument to imagery, and from Scripture to spiritual free‑association.

Hebrews 1:14 says angels are “sent forth to minister,” and the sender in the passage is God, not man. Every example in Scripture shows angels obeying God’s command, never human instruction. Your imagery about Jesus acting through us does not change that. It does not give believers authority to summon, assign, or direct angels.

Serving does not imply taking orders from the one served. Pastors minister to the church, but they do not obey the church; they obey God. Angels are the same. They serve God’s people by carrying out God’s will, not by responding to human direction.

When the argument shifts from Scripture to metaphors and mystical language, it is because the biblical foundation has collapsed. I am staying with the Scriptural pattern: angels obey God, and any help they provide is His initiative, not ours.

End of conversation encountered. I do not debate analogies or mysticism. I deal with Scripture.

 

[Cathode]

Cathode, you have shifted into mockery and condescension, I am not surprised, it is something I have some to expect from failed Catholic arguments. That move signals that you are no longer engaging Scripture at all. You are defending a mystical framework by trying to win the room rhetorically rather than by dealing with the text itself.

I am simply trying to win understanding for you, I have no ego to injure here.

I did cite scripture directly and at pains explained it so that even a child could understand. Thus it only appears like condescension. But you have brought me to this.

It’s better to lose the argument but win understanding, isn’t it. You have gained something.

 

[Cathode]

Serving does not imply taking orders from the one served.

Yes it does. “ May I take or orders “ is the first thing they say.

Your legalistic quibblage is a fascinating study in the denial of reality, and the lengths a desperate man will take. I bet you could gnaw your leg off to get out of a trap.

Be a good fellow and just cheerfully admit defeat, no one wants to see you hobbling on a peg leg.

It’s good that you contended your position, I truly admire that, but contention should lead to understanding not mutilation.