Featured Any one else think the Niv 2011 went to far in gender Inclusive language in revision?

The NIV translation is well within language parameters

 

bull feathers.
Read it in context and it is clear as glass. Women are not to have authority over men in the church. Period.

 

I'm talking about the Greek language for the paragraph from which that particular verse is found.

Context, clear as glass as you say, tells us that women will be saved in childbearing, meaning what exactly? Why no concern for the contradiction your interpretation has with Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 11 where women aren't told to be quiet, but pray and prophesy with their heads covered?

 

Meaning what exactly?

You keep returning to this agenda issue. If anyone is guilty of an agenda it was the men of the historical church that shut women out of church leadership for centuries in deference to the culture of the day instead of joining Jesus and freeing women from the restrictions culture had placed on them.

 

Jesus told the apostles that what ever they set up on earth was how it would be. Since HIS SPIRIT was guiding them in setting up the church and its rules how do you figure they ignored him?

As to your other question, the reference to me was from Eve. Even though she transgressed she was saved through teaching her children better. Though some commentaries say that they believe it was a reference by Paul to the pagan belief that faith in Artemis would help in bearing children. Her name is very close to the word for child bearing.

What I do know is very clear is that women has NO authority over men in the church. Just because the mores now have changed does not mean the way GOD set up the church is supposed to.

 

LOL! "Tomothy"? That books not in any of my Bibles. Also, we're talking about translating, not "tarnslating."

LOL!

 

Keeping women out of leadership is actually capitulating to culture, nit the other way around. Culture of the day treated women as property, Jesus said women are free. Paul did too, but temporarily said learn (which was so radical for the day) quietly for now, not forever.

 

I see no caveat in any of the scriptures on a time limit for women being out of leadership over men in the church.
Paul did not say, for now neither did Peter. They said be quiet. They said learn in quietness. They said do not take authority over a man in church. Not once did they, either of them add in, for now we will change it later.

 

Then Paul is contradicting himself. In Timothy he says be quiet but in Romans commends Phoebe and Junia, an apostle and a deacon.

 

Please quote verses that gives them these "titles". A quick search didn't turn up that. Have to leave shortly and don't have time to check multiple Bible versions.

Thanks!

 

Hmmmm
In the ESV:

No mention of an apostle, female or otherwise. Though it mentions 2 who are highly thought of BY THE apostles.
In the KJV:

Again no mention of an apostle male or female. Other than being highly thought of by them again.

Even the more liberal paraphrased Bibles do not call these women apostles. The CEV, which to me is the worst translation I have ever used does not.

I have had charismatic preachers try to tell me their wives were qualified to lead the churches and tell me to prove it. I have been an online teacher of women for over 10 years and to date I have NEVER seen the command to be silent and not have authority over men rescinded. It just is not there. Women did not lose their authority they were never given it. Jesus picked out 13 MEN to build his church.
Do women have jobs in the church? Yes. As teachers to other women and as nurturers to the saints. Not as Elders, deacons or preachers and teachers of mixed classes.

Our influence to men is to be in how we behave, as is stated also more than once. In the lists for Deacons and Elders it is specifically states the HUSBAND of one wife. NOT the WIFE of one husband.

 

Romans 16:1-7 (NIV)
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. [2] I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including*me. [3] Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus. [4] They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. [5] Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia. [6] Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you. [7] Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

Obviously there is room for differences of opinion.

 

A definition of the word used in the Greek does not give one power over.
The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number: 1249 Original WordWord Origindiakonoßprobably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands, cf (1377))Transliterated WordTDNT EntryDiakonos2:88,152Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechdee-ak'-on-os Noun Definition

1. one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister
   1. the servant of a king
   2. a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use
   3. a waiter, one who serves food and drink

NAS Word Usage - Total: 29deacons 3, minister 7, servant 10, servants 9 NAS Verse Count Matthew3Mark2John3Romans31 Corinthians12 Corinthians4Galatians1Ephesians2Philippians1Colossians41 Timothy3Total27Greek lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." These files are public domain.

 

Hmm--I certainly find any version of the NIV easier to read than my ESV.

I prefer translations that neither try to artificially preserve the "English male as generic" idea nor go whole hog being gender inclusive.

I do prefer translations that strive for gender accuracy.

Tell me what it said in the original language, and park your feminism and your masculinism at the door!

And totally agree women are not to USURP authority over the men. The word the old KJV used was very accurate. But usurping is very different than a church appointing a woman to a position.

But then again, I don't see the Bible teaching deacons and preachers are authorities over the members, but servants of them. And women are nowhere told they cannot be slaves and servants.

 

This easier to read or "readability" is a bunch of bunk.

 

and it still didn't say she was an apostle.