Featured Cessationist or Continuationist?

No, I got this from Bro. Sam! Do you know him?

 

You did not source it in your post. You past it off as your own work. That is called plagiarism. It seems you have a habit of doing this across the internet. And it is wrong.

 

Bro. Sam taught this in a conference and I took notes! I do not believe all that He stated...I stated just what I believe and why?

 

Haven't we been down this road before? Did you not asses points because of it? When post material belonging to someone else, especially when you post it word for word, then you have to mention that person as a source for what you posted and or provide an online link. You did none of that, you have done this before, and you are being dishonest by trying to lead everyone to believe it is your work. And to boot it looks like you over at grace centered board as well doing the same thing.

 

Yes, I have more points...but they are not all from the same teacher! I have many notebooks full of good teachings!
Maybe you would like to address the post...
I am not saying it is my work...I am just stating what I believe. There is no way I could copy word for word at that conference!

 

Oh I am quite sure the mods will be addressing it.

 

And yet you posted it word for word from his website on this board.

 

I stated what I believe and why! Prove the points wrong!

 

Other members were very kind to you the last time assuming you just did not know any better and explained it to you. Shame on you.

 

First, if you wouldn't plagiarize someone else's material you might be able to express yourself more coherently or intelligently.
A gift is not a manifestation. A manifestation is not a gift.
A gift can be manifested. You have never taken the time to learn the proper use of this word. Because of your continual plagiarism, you post things that don't make sense.

Second, the onus is on you to bring the evidence to the table that such gifts exist. If you claim these gifts give your burden of proof. One does not prove a negative (they don't exist), but rather, one proves an assertion.

For example if you say "I believe that there are purple hopping bunny rabbits on the moon," then you must provide that evidence.
I am a cessationist. I don't believe you. And in this case a complete non believer. Why is the burden of proof on me? It isn't. You prove your "belief" of purple hopping bunny rabbits on the moon, and you prove that the miraculous speaking of actual languages, and the gift of performing miracles, and the gift of being able to heal others is for today!!

Where is your evidence. I want to see it. Where is your burden of proof?
The onus is on you to provide the proof or admit that what you have is completely fraudulent.
Can you provide evidence?
Or is what you practice fraudulent--just like what Benny Hinn and Peter Popov do?

 

1 Corinthians 13:8-10. Take it or leave it.

As DHK has said, the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is not just the "signs and wonders" gifts -- which were only given as confirmation of the gospel message as originating with God -- but the overall evidence of His work in the believer.

You lift that verse out of context and misrepresent its meaning. Though the word "gift" is translated from the Greek charisma, the meaning is to have received something without any merit on your own part, and that gift is the Holy Spirit, who indwells because of the first gift of faith, which comes only from God.

You ignore the context in which v. 13 is given, having first stated in v. 11 that the gifting he is speaking of relates to the calling of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. No mention is made of the "signs and wonders."

4.I see the gifts were given to the early church is still needed in todays church.[/quote]No they are not. The witness of believers is sufficient to confirm the origin of the message.

5. Spiritual gifts such as prophecy, tongues, dreams and visions, are stated by Peter to be the fruit of the outpouring of the Spirit, the latter being the evidence for the advent and presence of the "last days" (Acts 2:17).[/QUOTE]Emphasis on the word ADVENT. This was fulfilled with the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

 

Thanks for your response Luke2427. I was beginning to think my post had been completely ignored. When I posted, I may have misunderstood what you meant by "the charismatic gifts."

I would be interested to know your difference between miraculous healing as a direct response to prayer and "the gift of healing." The difference may be in semantics only - just how we're putting it in words, but at that moment, the healing itself was a gift from God. It has not happened that way since, so I make no claim to having that gift myself, but God moved on that Sunday in a miraculous way.

So for me, whether it was the gift of healing or if it was a miraculous response from God to the prayers - makes no difference to me, because of the lasting physical impact to the child and the change brought about. And that is not to mention how it increased my own faith.

I appreciate your kind response to my post, and I respect your opinion on the matter, even if I'm not sure I completely agree. I'm always anxious on this board posting something like that, because of how some people would respond.

 

The sign gifts were for the "last days" of the Old Covenant--in particular, this was the "transition period" between the beginning of the New Covenant and the end of the Old Covenant, the period between the Cross and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

I believe the final sign in the heavens related to these "last days" may have been a revelation to the Christians in Jerusalem to flee before the siege. Remember that Jesus foretold about the destruction of Jerusalem and instructed His disciples to flee to the mountains (Mat. 24:15-16; Mar. 13:14; Luk. 21:20-22). Yet, He also told them to preach the gospel to all nations (Mat. 28:19-20; Luk. 24:47; Act. 1:8) beginning at Jerusalem, and that they would not finish in Israel before "the Son of man be come" (Mat. 10:23).

 

Again, thanks for the response Luke. Let me ask this: what if I already believe God in the way that you say all believers should (and I agree with you on this point)? Then, not only being able to witness, but to be a part of God's will, would that not serve to strengthen and reinforce faith?

Do you think Peter's faith was strengthened when he stepped over the side of the boat - and his feet found purchase on the water? Or when sinking, cried out to Jesus and was rescued?

Again - I think we agree with each other, but just see it from a different perspective. If seeing God at work in anything reinforces faith, that does not necessarily mean that something was lacking before. And you're right on the point you made: we shouldn't need to see signs and wonders to believe God.

Hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from on this.

 

Well if they haven't stopped, then why don't they start walking on water, going to the morgues and raising the dead, finding amputees and giving them their limbs back? There's more to the Apolstolic gifts than tongues, but that's all they harp on. Anyone can "gurgle", I guess.

 

I understand your position - perhaps, like many other, my faith is not as strong as it could be, and the fact that I was strengthened and encouraged means that I still have more growth ahead of me.

I would say that's true every believer though - the capacity for more growth. So I'm glad that at that one point, the Lord threw a straw my way!

Just different ways of looking at things, my brother.