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Featured Acts 17 and Total Inability

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by atpollard, Mar 9, 2021.

  1. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    It is a sin to reject Jesus, since clearly Jesus was offered and wants to save them.
     
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Clearly, in your mind, humans are in control and Jesus merely can want, but never save a person against their will.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    The reason its a sin is because you are not doing what God wants.

    God does not want you to sin ever again, and yet does not stop you against your will.
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Romans 7:24-25
    Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

    Romans 8:1-4
    There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

    Romans 8:29-39
    For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
     
  5. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    God does not want you to sin ever again.

    Does Jesus merely want that?

    Can't sweep that under the rug.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Romans 7:24-25
    Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

    Romans 8:1-4
    There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

    Romans 8:29-39
    For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    1 Corinthians 10

    13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.



    Next time you sin, guess who's fault that is?
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    No kidding Sherlock. Now go read Romans 7 and 8 and see that the believer is made holy by the shed blood of Jesus who redeemed us from our sin.
     
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Did God desire Joseph’s brothers to sin and ultimately save Israel and fulfill the dream? (I believe that He did).

    Did God desire Pontus Pilate to condemn and the Romans to crucify Jesus? (Scripture says that He did).

    Did God desire for Paul to suffer? (He told Ananias that He did.)

    What does scripture say about my sin?
    That is the answer to your question.
     
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes all the Elect, from all over the world, it's simple. God does not command the reprobate to repent , He created them as vessels of Wrath to demonstrate His justce against their sins Rom 9
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Another daily reminder that Calvinist are the most humble people on the planet.
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Repentance is something that pleases God, yet they which are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Cannot speaks to inability. They in the flesh simply refers to the natural man in his unregeneracy..
     
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Jn 12:39-40

    39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

    40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

    You see that, scripture says they could not believe, not would not believe ! Even though the lack of willingness to believe on Christ is but a symptom of mans lack ability to believe on Christ. This truth is a check mate against the false doctrine of mans freewill, as well as to them that deny mans total depravity/inability spiritually. See could not believe denotes inability. See the word could is the greek word dunamai and means: to be able, to have power

    However in the greek this word is preceded by the adverb ouk which means: not, no

    So the rendering would be not able, no power or ability to believe. See they cant just decide to believe by their so called own freewill. Now I know many proud freewillers are will oppose this truth or attempt to explain it away, but the word of God stands and withstands all opposition !
     
  14. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    I think I have a different approach to this dilemma: I believe that God selects those who He CAN save, not those who say they want to be saved after prevenient grace is applied (I disagree with Article 4 prevenient grace) or only those who He WANTS to save, because I believe God would love it if everyone was saved. Why isn't everyone saved if God wants it; the answer presented by Arminianism is that OUR freewill that He gave us is at fault, and Calvinism says it's God's fault by not choosing everyone, which is really close to the truth in my opinion, with the caveat that God chooses those people that He knew He would be able to get His Word to since before the foundation of the world. Arminianism believes God is hindered by our freewill, I believe God is hindered by a spiritual war and and entrenched enemy, and if Calvinism believed this way it would take away one of the few reasons that I disagree with them. This approach is along the lines of irresistible grace, it answers why some people aren't saved.


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  15. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    Another reason that I don't agree with Calvinism is that they don't believe a saved person can loose their salvation BUT believe The Book of Life has only saved people in it so if you are irrevocably saved why does the Bible say you can have your name blotted from the book? I have said elsewhere that the Book is a book of all humanity and if Calvinism believed this we would be sooo close!


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  16. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    The answer to irresistible grace is prevenient grace and I don't believe that doctrine because it's clearly stated in the fourth article which, Catholic, Wesleyan doctrine also support, that freewill is impossible without prevenient grace and since they believe that freewill is a God given right prevenient grace has to be given to every person throughout time who is an owner of free will. Since accepting prevenient grace is equal to one, every person throughout humanity is brought to a place of open heart and mind, and every single person at that point is given the opportunity to believe on JESUS CHRIST it means the Great Commission is pointless, and that with the right conditions and given the right mindset, someone else besides Adam could've done better and rebuffed Satan's influence so humanity wouldn't of had to suffer and Christ wouldn't of had to die.


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  17. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    Lastly in my opinion irresistible grace says, given the right conditions, where God is able to present the evidence and the gospel, who wouldn't accept the love of Christ, my father, my God and my creator! Like prevenient grace God would have to prepare a person's "ground for the seed" but where prevenient says that if the seed is presented it is the grounds choice to grow faith regardless of its condition being rocky, packed and trampled ground or ground full of weeds, irresistible grace says only prepared "good ground" will yield a harvest.


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