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Featured The Sinless Human

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by NetChaplain, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    The Lord Jesus was fully human physically but not spiritually, that is, He had the nature of our body but not the nature of our soul (the soul being the reasoning entity of our spirit). The nature of a human soul is sinful, but the nature of Christ’s soul was sinless! Thus only Christians have two natures in their soul (old and new man)! This “new man” or new nature in those reborn is something “created in righteousness and true holiness,” and “after the image of Him that created him (it)” (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10). Man was created in God’s “likeness,” but the Son of God was incarnated after the “likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom 8:3 – “He sent His own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have” -NLT).

    The word “likeness” here is in the sense of similarity, in appearance only, but not as identically the same. One (Jesus) taking on a body has the appearance of having the sinful nature, but it is common knowledge of course that the Lord Jesus did not partake of the sinful nature (“old man”) of a human. He partook of the nature of a human body (if its “infirmities” - Heb 4:15 - can be considered a nature) but not the nature of a human soul, which is sinful. After all, does not all spirit beings have their own soul, as Jesus has His own Soul.

    There may be some who may think that human sin coexisted in Christ with His deity, but this is incorrect! During the crucifixion at His death, the guilt of all believers sin was “laid on Him” (Isa 53:6), but never in Him, i.e. He was made out to be sin, not actually be sin but imputatively; “to be the offering for our sin” (2Co 5:21 NLT). Not to stray too far from the subject matter, there are some (e.g. J MacArthur, R C Sproul, etc.) who believe that Christ was peccable and was capable of sinning, but this conflicts with the fact that “God cannot be tempted with evil” (Jam 1:13). Also, to sin you must have a sin nature!

    The best I can say is that He did not need to partake of the nature of man’s soul to “be touched with the feeling of our infirmities”; nor could He, because the sin sacrifice required being “spotless.” Jesus was “tempted of the devil,” but He was not enticed within Himself to do evil, as a man would, He being without a sin nature.

    Here (Rom 8:3) the word “flesh” is in relation to the nature of man’s spirit, which is sinful, and not in the sense of the physical body because a thing or object cannot be considered sinful, it being without spirit and soul. Things can be used sinfully but never become sinful! Therefore, the proper interpretation here for “flesh” is in reference to the nature of man’s spirit and not the body of man’s spirit. ‘Sarx’; Strong’s definition IV: “the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God.”
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Christ is fully human.

    What was not “assumed” was not redeemed.

    peace to you
     
  3. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    When Scripture writes that "God saw that it was good" it designs the intention that He foreknew He would use all for good that He created, like the Tree of good and evil, Satan and man, hell and the lake of fire. He knew all would be use for the good of His plan and pleasure. It's also a common mistake in the belief that Adam and Eve did not possess the old man (sin nature) until they partook of the Tree, but this merely manifested that they did have the sin nature prior to the temptation. They expressed possesing "all that is in the world" (1Jo 2:16) in Gen 3:6 prior to partaking of the Tree: "saw that the tree was good for food" (which God said it was in 1:12 but with man it is "lust of the flesh" or great hunger for food or anything we desire in excess relating only to this life), "was pleasant to the eyes" (same thing concerning great desire for all that is appealing to see), "the pride of life" (which Gill comments that "which above all was the most engaging, and was the most prevailing motive to influence her to eat of it, an eager desire of more wisdom and knowledge; though there was nothing she could see in the tree, and the fruit of it, which promised this; only she perceived in her mind, by the discourse she had with the serpent, and by what he had told her, and she believed, that this would be the consequence of eating this fruit, which was very desirable, and she concluded within herself that so it would be."

    A human consists of a spirit, body, soul and nature. The only "likeness" that was of Christ's incarnation or humanity was His body and its "infirmities" which He endured from it. His spirit being has always existed, but His body, like ours was incarnated; and His soul and nature could ever only be Divine. Concerning that Christ "was in all points tempted like as we are" (Heb 4:15), I like how Gill's comment addresses this in Heb 2:18:

    "For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted",.... "By Satan, at his entrance on his public ministry, and a little before his death; which was done, not by stirring up sin in him, for he had none, nor by putting any into him, which could not be done, nor could Satan get any advantage over him; he solicited him one thing and another, but in vain; though these temptations were very troublesome, and disagreeable, and abhorrent to the pure and holy nature of Christ, and so must be reckoned among his sufferings, or things by which he suffered: and as afflictions are sometimes called temptations, in this sense also Christ suffered, being tempted, with outward poverty and meanness, with slight and neglect from his own relations, and with a general contempt and reproach among men: he was often tempted by the Jews with ensnaring questions; he was deserted by his followers, by his own disciples, yea, by his God and Father; all which were great trials to him, and must be accounted as sufferings: and he also endured great pains of body, and anguish of mind, and at last death itself."

    "A body hast Thou prepared Me," so that God could "condemn sin in the flesh (sin in the nature, i.e. not the body which has no sin within itself); for He did not desire "burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin" (Heb 10:6).
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You are off the reservation again.Many errors here,invented speculations
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    The article is merely establishing that Jesus was Jesus was human except sin nature. Right?
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Here is an article that I wrote is response to this question in a seniors bible class.

    Heb_4:15

    "...One who has been tempted G3985 in all things..."

    Thayer G3985
    to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quantity

    Impeccability vs Peccability

    It is not a question of whether Jesus sinned, it is a question of "could" Jesus have sinned. All historic traditions of the Church agree that Jesus did not sin. That is what Scripture states (Joh_8:46; 2Co_5:21; Heb_4:15; 1Pe_2:22; 1Jn_3:5). But the question revolves around the word "could". Was Jesus able or unable to sin?

    In theological terms was Jesus

    Peccable "susceptible to temptation", able to not sin & able to sin or was He
    Impeccable not able to sin.

    If Jesus was impeccable then how could He be truly tempted. For any temptation to be real there has to be the real possibility of failure, of submitting to the temptation. There is no temptation without the ability to fall to that temptation.

    Remember, when we sin we are 'drawn away' by our own lusts (meaning we seek to meet those desires). Jesus was 'tempted' yet without sin. he saw the appeal but was not swayed toward them.

    As I understand it the significance of the sinless life and subsequent sacrifice of Jesus was that He was capable of sin but didn't do it. He was able to defeat the temptation. (Heb 2:18

    I don't believe that makes him NOT God. I think it makes him more clearly human. {Php_2:6-7}
     
  7. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Hi, and thanks for your input! Looking at the two meanings of "tempt" we can see more clearly their uses. 1) to try the strength or quality of something. 2) to entice to sin.

    Since God cannot be tempted with evil to "entice" to sin (Jas 1:13), as one must have a sin nature to sin, because sinning manifests the antecedent existence of the sin nature, which Jesus Christ didn't have, He being conceived of the Spirit and not man. The purpose of His testing was to manifest that He could not sin, which confirms the qualification of His expiation for the sin nature and its works.

    The sin nature was manifested in Eve prior to committing the sin via her "desire to make one wise" (Gen 3:6), i.e. "be as gods" (v 5). Evil is used for good for the purpose of manifesting holiness, as there is no other way to demonstrate is without contrasting it with evil. I think this also answers to why Moses wrote that "God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good" (Gen 1:31). It was good that God made Satan (and all evil) in knowing He would use him for the good of His plan.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    He as a human in His soul died on the cross for our sins while He remained fully God our creator, Isaiah 53:12, John 19:28, Hebrews 1:3.
     
  9. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    I think I understand your meaning, but I would say He was human in His body, for His soul was divine, or where would be the "spotless Lamb"; and the human body nether harbors nor is sinful, being and object like a rock or a pin, but is subjected to the misuse of it in sin, as sin isn't attributed to the body but to the one using it.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Then His human resurrection was not as the man, which is not the case, Luke 24:39. Also as the Lamb He is not as the Lamb referred to as God. He is both the Lamb and God in the same way He is both the man and God. His soul is as the Son, who is both fully the man and fully God.
     
    #10 37818, Jun 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
  11. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    I see it that Christ is who He has always been, the Son of God. He was in the same type of body as man, but now is in a new human body unlike any other man. Before He was incarnated, His spirit had always existed, unlike man; and His spirit and soul have always been divine, unlike man.

    The only similarity He had with man as an earthly Human was a mortal body and its infirmities, which the Father used to effect salvation for man. Presently and from now on, Christ's new body has been the only thing different from His eternal divine aspects (unless we are discussing different particulars).
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    He was also always not divine too, having also always been someone other than God, John 1:2. And the text says so twice, John 1:1-2. ". . . with God."
     
  13. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    But Christ was "God manifest in the flesh (divine human), justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not in dispute.
     
  15. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Appreciate your input and God bless!
     
  16. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    This sounds a lot like you are promoting modalism. I hope I am wrong.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not modalism. But what is not traditionally acknowledged. What is traditionally acknowledged is that the Son in His incarnation has two distinct natures. But according to John 1:1-2 the Word aka the Son was both "with God" and "was,God." The Greek translated "with God" is used some 20 times and refers to someone other than God. Now the heresy of Arianism denies the Son was ever the uncreated God. Modalism denies that the Son is a different person with God the Father.
     
    #17 37818, Jun 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2021
  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    In regard to the two meanings that you gave. With regard to (2) "to entice to sin" that was what Satan did with Christ Jesus for the forty days {Mar 1:13} and in regard to (1) "try the strength or quality of something" you see that shown in {Heb 4:5}. Christ Jesus was able to be the propitiation for us just because He was able to sin but did not submit to it.

    You say that the purpose was to show that He could not sin, but if He could not sin then how is that a test. For a test to be valid there has to be the possibility to pass or fail. That is why I say that Christ Jesus was peccable, was capable of sinning.
     
  19. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your reply and comment, though we see this differently.
     
  20. OneIsTheWord

    OneIsTheWord Member

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    Christ is fully human and fully God, the difference is the Christ as God did not have all of His glory and became flesh
    Psalm 51:5 (KJV) Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
     
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