1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The KJV has been Preserved more Perfectly than Human Possibility.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Alan Gross, Apr 23, 2023.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,923
    Likes Received:
    318
    Faith:
    Baptist


    Your sources lie about the Septuagint. Only KJVOnly does that. No one else on this planet does. Now if you have any reason, listen to the KJV Translators themselves for the truth.

    The Translators to the Reader

    . But, when the fulness of time drew near, that the Sun of righteousness, the Son of God should come into the world, whom God ordained to be a reconciliation through faith in his blood, not of the Jew only, but also of the Greek, yea, of all them that were scattered abroad; then lo, it pleased the Lord to stir up the spirit of a Greek Prince (Greek for descent and language) even of Ptolemy Philadelph King of Egypt, to procure the translating of the Book of God out of Hebrew into Greek. This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters, commonly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gentiles by written preaching, as Saint John Baptist did among the Jews by vocal. For the Grecians being desirous of learning, were not wont to suffer books of worth to lie moulding in Kings' libraries, but had many of their servants, ready scribes, to copy them out, and so they were dispersed and made common. Again, the Greek tongue was well known and made familiar to most inhabitants in Asia, by reason of the conquest that there the Grecians had made, as also by the Colonies, which thither they had sent. For the same causes also it was well understood in many places of Europe, yea, and of Africa too. Therefore the word of God being set forth in Greek, becometh hereby like a candle set upon a candlestick, which giveth light to all that are in the house, or like a proclamation sounded forth in the market place, which most men presently take knowledge of; and therefore that language was fittest to contain the Scriptures, both for the first Preachers of the Gospel to appeal unto for witness, and for the learners also of those times to make search and trial by. It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but that it needed in many places correction; and who had been so sufficient for this work as the Apostles or Apostolic men? Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather than by making a new, in that new world and green age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their own turn, and therefore bearing witness to themselves, their witness not to be regarded. This may be supposed to be some cause, why the Translation of the Seventy was allowed to pass for current. Notwithstanding, though it was commended generally, yet it did not fully content the learned, no not of the Jews.

    AND AGAIN

    The translation of the Seventy dissenteth from the Original in many places, neither doth it come near it, for perspicuity, gravity, majesty; yet which of the Apostles did condemn it? Condemn it? Nay, they used it, (as it is apparent, and as Saint Jerome and most learned men do confess) which they would not have done, nor by their example of using it, so grace and commend it to the Church, if it had been unworthy the appellation and name of the word of God.

    The Translators to the Reader
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why did the NKJV leave God out of His 'Bible', so much?

    New King James Version Omissions
    NKJV omits the word "Lord" 66 times
    NKJV omits the word "God" 51 times
    NKJV omits the word "JEHOVAH" entirely
    NKJV omits the word "Godhead" in Acts 17:29.


    NKJV Demotes Jesus Christ
    NKJV
    VS KJV
    Luke 13:8 Sir vs Lord
    Matthew 18:26 before him saying, Master vs and worshipped him saying, Lord
    Matthew 20:20 kneeling down vs worshipping him
    Matthew 26:64 right hand of the Power vs right hand of power
    Genesis 22:8 God will provide for himself the lamb vs God will provide himself a lamb
    John 8:35 a son vs the Son
    Colossians 2:2 the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ vs the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ (Trinity)
    Matthew 8:19 et al. Teacher vs Master
    Matthew 19:16 Good Teacher vs Good Master
    Matthew 22:16 Teacher vs Master
    Matthew 23:8 One is your Teacher, the Christ vs one is your Master, even Christ
    Matthew 23:10 And do not be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, the Christ vs Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

    Demotes Trinity
    Acts 17:29 Divine Nature vs Godhead
    Philippians 4:20 our God and Father vs God and our Father
    Revelation 1:6 his God and Father vs God and his Father
    Colossians 3:17 God the Father through Him vs God and the Father by him
    John 14:16 Helper vs Comforter
    John 14:26 Helper vs Comforter
    John 15:26 Helper vs Comforter
    John 16:7 Helper vs Comforter


    NKJV Copies Jehovah Witness Version
    NKJV
    vs KJV
    Demotes Jesus Christ

    Acts 3:13 His Servant Jesus vs his Son Jesus
    Acts 3:26 His Servant Jesus vs his Son Jesus
    Acts 4:27 holy Servant Jesus vs holy child Jesus
    Acts 4:30 holy Servant Jesus vs holy child Jesus
    Colossians 1:15 the firstborn over all creation vs the firstborn of every creature
    Mark 2:15 OMITTED Jesus
    Hebrews 4:8 Joshua vs Jesus
    Acts 7:45 Joshua vs Jesus
    2 Thessalonians 3:5 patience of Christ vs patient waiting for Christ



    That is another one of your on-and-on grasping at straws to make yourself a KJV-only target to shoot at.

    Try this on for size regarding your univocality (good info on the chart, although David J. Stewart and many of his beliefs are not to my taste/ dunno if he or anyone else is KJV-only and I could care less.)

    http://www.jesusisprecious.org/bible/kjb/kjb_chart-large.gif
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You're not paying very good attention, but you came off of KJV-only for once.
    Good job.
     
  4. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,261
    Likes Received:
    422
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You continue to bear false witness and make false reports. Perhaps you blindly repeated the factually incorrect claims of Gail Riplinger. You should check out claims and accusations before you repeat them. The KJV is not the standard for which words are in the Hebrew Masoretic text or the Greek Textus Receptus texts.

    The NKJV did not actually omit the word "God" 51 times where the Hebrew name for God or the Greek name for God was used. The NKJV accurately and faithfully translated the original-language words where the KJV had added the name God where it was not found in the Hebrew OT or in the Greek NT.

    In response to this misleading and factually false charge by Gail Riplinger, Dr. James D. Price noted: "The truth is that the KJV added the word "God" in fifty one or more places where the Hebrew or Greek text did not contain it--and that without using italics in most cases. This was because the KJV used dynamic equivalence paraphrases such as "God forbid," "God save the king," or "God speed" instead of a more literal expression in good English. In all these places the NKJV made the KJV more literal and more faithful to the Hebrew and Greek texts without undermining the place of God in the Bible" (False Witness of G. A. Riplinger's Death Certificate for the NKJV, p. 4).

    The KJV has Jehovah (Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, Isaiah 26:4), Jehovah-jireh (Genesis 22:14), Jehovah-nissi (Exodus 17:15), Jehovah-shalom (Judges 6:24), and JAH (Psalm 68:4). In the Hebrew Old Testament, this Hebrew name of God is actually found over 5,000 times and perhaps as many as 6,000 times. The NKJV was simply consistent with the way that the KJV translators usually translated this Hebrew name for God by using "LORD" or "GOD" to indicate it. If it is wrong for the NKJV to omit "Jehovah" those seven or eight times, it would also be wrong for the KJV not to translate it Jehovah the over 5,000 more times it was used in the Old Testament. You cannot have it both ways since use of double standards is wrong and unscriptural. In order for the NKJV to be wrong to translate this Hebrew name for God by "LORD," you would have to make the KJV wrong to for doing the same thing over 5,000 times.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,261
    Likes Received:
    422
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In her tract attacking and misrepresenting the NKJV, Gail Riplinger claimed that the "NKJV copies Jehovah Witness Version" at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 by having the rendering "Joshua" instead of having the rendering "Jesus" as the KJV does. Part of this tract was also published in the Church Bus News (April-June, 1996, p. 26). Riplinger had earlier claimed that the “new versions use dynamic equivalencies frequently, such as translating ‘Jesus’ as “Joshua’ in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8” (New Age Bible Versions, p. 127).

    Gail Riplinger, who claimed to have collated the pre-1611 English Bibles, did not share with her readers the fact that several of the early good English Bibles have this same rendering as the NKJV. At Hebrews 4:8, Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's, Coverdale's Duoglott, Great, Taverner's, and Whittingham's have "Joshua." At Acts 7:45, Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's, and Great Bibles have "Joshua." Were the majority of the earlier 1500's English Bibles which have "Joshua" at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 copying the 1950's Jehovah Witnesses' Version? Did the old Peshitta Syriac, which is on the KJV-only view's pure stream of Bibles, follow a Jehovah Witnesses' reading in these verses? The Peshitta even adds "the son of Nun" to make sure that it is clear that Joshua is referred to in Hebrews 4:8. All the editions of Luther's German Bible published during Luther's lifetime have "Josua" (Joshua) at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. Would Ruckman claim that William Tyndale and Martin Luther purposely mistranslated Acts 7:45?

    The 1917 Scofield Reference Bible has the center column note "Joshua" at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. The 1657 Dutch Annotations has at Jesus at Acts 7:45 the following: “That is Joshua, the son of Nun, whereby we see that the names Joshua and Jesus are all one name.” Concerning Acts 7:45 in his commentary, David Sorenson asserted: “The Jesus mentioned in verse 45 is a reference to Joshua” (p. 365).

    The fact should be obvious that a 1950's Jehovah Witnesses' Version did not even exist when the old Syriac, Luther's German Bible, and several of the early English Bibles had the reading "Joshua" in these verses. It is also interesting to note that Wally Beebe's 1975 Bus Worker's Edition of the KJV has "Joshua" in the text at Acts 7:45 and that it has a note listing "Joshua" as an alternative translation at the end of Hebrews 4:8. Would Riplinger claim that the edition of the KJV in Beebe's Bus Worker's Bible copied from the Jehovah Witnesses? The Liberty Annotated Study Bible [KJV], the Criswell Study Bible [KJV], and the Rice Reference Bible [KJV] also have "Joshua" in the text at Acts 7:45.

    The evidence should be clear and overwhelming that it was wrong and false to claim that the NKJV copies the Jehovah Witnesses' Version at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. For Jesus at Acts 7:45, The Rock of Ages Study Bible [KJV] has this note: “Not our Lord, but Joshua, who succeeded Moses. Joshua is a shorter form of the Hebrew name Jehoshua. Jesus is the Greek name for Joshua, just as Henry is the English spelling of the German name Heinrich” (p. 1535). In his commentary on the Gospel of Luke, G. Campbell Morgan observed that "Jesus is merely the Anglicising of the Greek name; and the Greek name rendered Jesus is the Greek form of a very well-known and common Hebrew name, Joshua; and Joshua is really an abbreviation of the name Jehoshua" (p. 40). In his commentary on Acts, J. Vernon McGee noted about 7:45: "Jesus in this passage refers to Joshua. Joshua is the Hebrew name, and Jesus is the Greek" (p. 83). In his 1857 commentary on Acts, J. A. Alexander stated: "Jesus, the Septuagint form of Joshua, occurs also in Heb. 4:8, and in both cases creates some confusion in the minds of English readers" (p. 294). Bullinger maintained that “Jesus=Joshua, the son of Nun” at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 (Lexicon, pp. 422-423). In his commentary on Acts, H. A. Ironside wrote: "The word 'Jesus' here of course is really Joshua. It is the same name, but we somehow think of 'Jesus' as applying only to our blessed Saviour" (p. 173). Concerning this verse in the 1839 Baptist edition of the Comprehensive Commentary edited by William Jenks and Joseph Warne, this is stated: “The tabernacle was brought in by those who came with Jesus, that is, Joshua, as, for distinction-sake, and to prevent mistakes, it ought to be read, both here and Hebrews 4:8” (p. 38). The ABS’s Committee on Versions commented: “Thus in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8, we find the name Jesus, which the common reader will naturally refer only to the Saviour; while in reality it is simply the Greek form for Joshua, and should properly have been so written” (Statements, p. 7). It could also be noted that the New Testament used the name "Jesus" to refer to a man also called "Justus" (Col. 4:11).

    Gail Riplinger's false claim, which seems to attempt to condemn the NKJV by associating it with a cult, is based on the ad hominem (poisoning the well) fallacy. Did Riplinger intend or desire to injure the good name and reputation of the NKJV translators by making these false, and perhaps even slanderous, or libelous statements concerning the NKJV? Does not Riplinger's claim "bear false witness" against the NKJV and its translators (Exod. 20:16, Prov. 6:19, 14:5, Rom. 13:9)? Riplinger wrote: "Anything based on a false premise will eventually have to resort to lies to defend itself" (Blind Guides, p. 58). Did Riplinger possibly assume or start with a false premise that the NKJV copied the Jehovah Witnesses' Version? Defending Riplinger, Waite wrote: "If she has made an error of fact or quotation, she is willing to admit it and correct it" (Foes, p. 55). Have these errors been corrected or are these false claims still being published in her tract?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,261
    Likes Received:
    422
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This KJV-only chart does not present good information. It presents misleading and false accusations based on use of double standards. It bears false witness. It was soundly proven how several of his claims were not true.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe The KJV has been Preserved more Perfectly than Humanly Possible.

    I never realized that throwing the words 'more perfectly' in there would light up the board.

    I didn't.

    God did.


    Pretty good explanatory chart, isn't it?

    I don't see where you have 'soundly proven' anything, except your distain for KJVOs, the KJV, and apparently, Gail Riplinger, too.

    Good for you. If that is your religion.

    The Intent for the revision, the texts used, the translators, the translation techniques, and the Theologies, are the different measures and standards, and the issues at hand, any of which being skewed, twisted, and contaminated, would have thrown off the result.

    All five have been iniquitously altered in the NKJV, according to me, and yet you disagree.

    The NKJV results points the needle over more toward agreement with the NWT, than the KJV, doesn't it?

    Regardless of how you cut it.

    Did you know that 'copywriting' is a translation techniques?

    By removing the word 'God' and other ridiculous changes, the NKJV could pass the standards and measures of being a unique product.

    How swift.

    I believe the KJV and it's predecessors had a perfectly reasonable Intent for the revision, and appropriately chose reliable texts used, the translators, the translation techniques, and the Theologies considered.

    You don't, for whatever reason.

    Such as, your distain for KJVOs, the KJV, and apparently, Gail Riplinger, too, for example.

    Do I look like Gail Riplinger?

    Fyi:

    From: Definitions of KJV Only

    KJVO #1 "I PREFER THE KJV"

    This group believes the KJV is the best single English translation available today. This is based on its history, usefulness, beauty, etc. It does NOT mean that there might not be a better English translation possible and that other present translations are "bad".

    These are only marginally KJVonly and should NOT be lumped in with discussion on other issues.


    KJVO #2 "I BELIEVE THE UNDERLYING GREEK/HEBREW TEXT OF THE KJV IS BEST"

    This group believes that the MT (Majority Text) or the TR (Textus Receptus) -- even though there are obvious differences in the two -- are "superior" to all other Greek documents and more closely reflect the original autographs. They do not believe that the TR or the Majority Text is perfect in any one printed copy. They believe that the King James Version, based on this text, is the clearest and most accurate translation that we have in English today.


    KJVO #3 "I BELIEVE IN THE RECEIVED TEXT ONLY"

    This group would consider the TR has either been "supernaturally preserved" or even "inspired" and hence remain inerrant through the providential hand of God. They believe that the TR is verbally identical to the original autographs.

    They consider any English translation from "inferior" Greek texts of W/H (Wescott & Hort) or UBS/Nestle-Aland (United Bible Society) as to be sub-standard and inaccurate.


    KJVO #4 "I BELIEVE THE KING JAMES IS INSPIRED"

    This group, by far the majority of the KJVonly, believe that the KJV itself, as an English translation, is inspired and therefore inerrant. A person who would dare to defend or even use another translation of the Bible are rejecting the "true" and "real" Bible, the only Word of God.

    To this group, any "change" (added words, omitted words or verses, different choices of English words, modern words) is deviation from the truth and therefore "corrupt". The standard is always the KJV. They believe that God providentially gave the translators wisdom and guided them so that they translated all of the words correctly. As a result, they believe the King James Version is the perfectly preserved Word of God in the English language.

    "The King James Bible Alone = The Word of God Alone."


    KJVO #5 "I BELIEVE THE KJV IS NEW REVELATION"

    This group believes that the KJV was supernaturally inspired in such a way that the English text itself is inerrant revelation. The Bible was "re-inspired" in 1611, rendering it in the English language.

    These would say that the Greek/Hebrew should be changed to agree with the "new" revelation in 1611 and that all translations into other languages (Spanish, French, etc) should match the KJV.


    When making a point, discussing an aspect of this position or debating an issue, PLEASE use the correct KJVO "number". It is WRONG to lump a very slight leaning to the KJVO position (#1-2) with the mainstream KJVO (#3-4) or with the extreme KJVO (#5).

    Thank you.
     
    #107 Alan Gross, Apr 29, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2023
  8. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,261
    Likes Received:
    422
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It was already clearly proven that the NKJV did not remove the word "God" 51 times where it was found in the Hebrew Masoretic Text or in the Greek Textus Receptus texts. The makers of the KJV had added the word "God" when the Hebrew name for God was not in its underlying text or when the Greek name for God in the NT was not in its underlying text.

    You refuse to learn the facts and correct bogus, false accusations. You merely repeat your false accusation that was already refuted.

    My statements concerning the KJV and the NKJV are true while yours are not.
    The truth remains that the NKJV is a genuine, real, sufficient, true English Bible translation in the same sense (univocally) as the KJV is a genuine, real, sufficient, true English Bible translation.

    The NKJV is the word of God translated into English in the same sense (univocally) as the KJV is the word of God translated into English.
    The NKJV is both a revision (of the KJV) and a Bible translation in the same way (univocally) that the KJV is both a revision (of the pre-1611 English Bibles) and a Bible translation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    #109 Alan Gross, Apr 30, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2023
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You all talk really nice, in the blue above, but how is it that they can omit the Name "God" 51 times, from the KJV translation, "without undermining the place of God in the Bible", that He held in those 51 times?
     
  11. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,923
    Likes Received:
    318
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you not even read the post? Do you just spam false witness? Here is Logos 1560's response to your false KJVOnly witness.

    "The NKJV did not actually omit the word "God" 51 times where the Hebrew name for God or the Greek name for God was used. The NKJV accurately and faithfully translated the original-language words where the KJV had added the name God where it was not found in the Hebrew OT or in the Greek NT.

    In response to this misleading and factually false charge by Gail Riplinger, Dr. James D. Price noted: "The truth is that the KJV added the word "God" in fifty one or more places where the Hebrew or Greek text did not contain it--and that without using italics in most cases. This was because the KJV used dynamic equivalence paraphrases such as "God forbid," "God save the king," or "God speed" instead of a more literal expression in good English. In all these places the NKJV made the KJV more literal and more faithful to the Hebrew and Greek texts without undermining the place of God in the Bible" (False Witness of G. A. Riplinger's Death Certificate for the NKJV, p. 4)"
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yeah, to say the least about it.

    What spam of a false witness?

    Hey Conan, we were hoping you would have an answer my question, "how is it that they can omit the Name "God" 51 times, from the KJV translation, "without undermining the place of God in the Bible", that He had held when those 51 times the Name "God" was still in there?

    The intent of the NKJV was that it was to be a revision of the KJV.

    Did somebody lie about that? Who's lying?

    The NKJV is still claiming to be a revision of the KJV, as true or false a witness that that might be

    When you do a revision of a volume, you start with the original version you are revising, right?

    The NKJV omitted 51 times the Name "God" was sitting there in the KJV, not bothering anybody (or maybe it was(?)

    Where was the expediency?

    What was the rush?

    Who would have ever thought that this would be a good idea, to even bring up?

    For the benefit of woodoness?

    "Never may it be!"

    Or could there be certain groups that are offended by the Name "God"?

    I know, if I were God, this might just offend me, but there is no telling if they ever thought of that.

    And for some odd reason the NKJV is right on cue in mirroring the NWT.

    Because others never translated it similarly? Because the NKJV copied from the NWT? Maybe not. No because it is a sister version with the NWT, using their same Greek texts.

    "Certainly not! Seeing that we died with reference to sin, how can we keep living any longer in it?"

    "Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

    Is it live or is it Memorex?

    Which one is which?

    I'm sorry. I thought you guys would know.

    From: Occult Roots Of The Modern Bible Versions

    "Constantin Tischendorf (1815-74) was a German textual editor whom Dr. Frederick Scrivener of the English Revision Committee ranked "the first Bible critic in Europe."

    "Tischendorf traveled extensively in search of ancient documents and was responsible for finding the two manuscripts most relied upon in the Westcott-Hort Greek Text, the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. Tischendorf discovered (c. A.D. 1844) the Vaticanus B manuscript in the Vatican Library and Sinaiticus Aleph in a waste basket in a Catholic Convent at the base of Mt. Sinai. (81)

    "In The Revision Revised, Dean Burgon described for his English readers the corrupt character of the manuscripts primarily used by Westcott and Hort, not to revise the Textus Receptus, but to create an altogether new Greek Text.

    "It matters nothing that all four are discovered on careful scrutiny to differ essentially, not only from ninety-nine out of a hundred of the whole body of extant MSS, besides, but even from one another.

    "This last circumstance, obviously fatal to their corporate pretensions, is unaccountably overlooked.

    "And yet it admits of only one satisfactory explanation: viz.

    "That in different degrees they all five exhibit a fabricated text. . .We venture to assure [the reader] without a particle of hesitation, that Aleph, B, D, are three of the most scandalously corrupt copies extant: -- exhibit the most shamefully mutilated texts which are anywhere to be met with: -- have become, by whatever process (for their history is wholly unknown), the depositories of the largest amount of fabricated readings, ancient blunders, and intentional perversions of Truth, -- which are discoverable in any known copies of the Word of God." (82)

    "The manuscripts in question were found to derive from an underground of occult scripture within Christendom that has been passed through successive generations since the apostolic era.

    "As the occult Traditions have sought to infiltrate and transform the secular establishment, the Church has historically been attended by an Alexandrian Tradition, which seeks to smuggle Gnostic doctrines into the Sacred Canon via the "revision" or "correction" of Scripture.

    "Bible scholar, Dr. Herman Hoskier parallels the folly of Israel returning to Egypt to the Anglican scribes searching for inspired writings in the ancient house of bondage:

    "Nearly all revision appears to center in Egypt, and to suppose all the other documents wrong when opposed to these Egyptian documents is unsound and unscientific . . . those who accept the Westcott and Hort text are basing their accusations of untruth as to the Gospellists upon an Egyptian revision current 200 to 450 A.D. and abandoned between 500 to 1881, merely revived in our day and stamped as genuine." (83)

    81. John William Burgon, p. 319.

    82. Ibid., pp. 11, 12, 16.

    83. David Otis Fuller, pp. 141-43.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,574
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @Alan Gross,
    What part of the term "God" being added to the word of God by the KJV translators where it is not in the Greek or Hebrew text, do you not understand?
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nobody is talking about the Hebrew or Greek texts. I'm not.

    Why?

    37818?
    ...

    See how smooth this in blue sounds?

    Remarkable.

    Smooth like this attempt:

    But, neither of them fly any more than a donkey.

    The Name "God" was omitted from the KJV 51 times.

    And it still begs the question, "why?"

    It's supposed to be God's Book after all, isn't it, or not?
     
  15. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,261
    Likes Received:
    422
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your question was already soundly answered. The name "God" was soundly "omitted" those times because God's preserved Book in the original languages did not have the Hebrew name for God or the Greek name for God in those places so instead of adding a word, the original-language words were faithfully and accurately translated. According to the Scriptures, adding words is just as wrong as omitting words. You repeat the same misleading and false accusation that has already been answered.

    The KJV is an English Bible translation just as the NKJV is an English Bible translation. The preserved Scriptures in the original languages is the proper standard and authority for which words belong in a translation of them while another translation such as the KJV is not the correct standard and authority for which words belong in another translation such as the NKJV.
     
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Cute, but naugh.

    That's not regarding translation.

    You know that.

    The one I found was an idiom that as figurative language was more expressive than the wooden 'literal' that had to be put in our words.

    They are hard to find since there is no Hebrew or Greek that could be translated that way, as the theory goes.

    Do you know of any of the 51 omissions and where they are at?

    Nice try.

    The NKJV is supposed to BE the KJV, before it was 'revised'.

    Those words were in the KJV, along with hundreds more, and the NKJV revisers of the KJV and committees took them out of the KJV, along with other changes, for the NKJV to become the NKJV.
     
  17. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,261
    Likes Received:
    422
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The NKJV is supposed to be a revision of the KJV, which it is, and it is supposed to be a translation of the same underlying original-language texts, which it is.

    According to the first rule for the making of the KJV, the 1611 KJV is supposed to be the Bishops' Bible before it is revised. The makers of the KJV omitted many words that were found in the Bishops' Bible. According to a consistent, just application of your own stated reasoning, are you suggesting that the KJV is wrong to omit many English words found in the Bishops' Bible, of which the KJV is officially a revision?

    At Matthew 28:9, Tyndale's 1526 New Testament and the 1535 Coverdale's Bible have "God speed you." The KJV translators corrected this addition of the word "God" although they kept it at 2 John 10 and 11.

    The KJV removed the addition of the phrase "to God" at Galatians 5:12 in the earlier pre-1611 English Bibles ["I would to God"].
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,574
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't see that part of it, by a country mile.
     
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We're going by the count of their new friend,

    I asked them. They are hard to dig for ( Strong's will probably give "God" or "God"-something as a meaning of whatever we find).

    You watch.

    I'll let you know.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...