1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured I used to be a Mormon: AMA

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by iThinkStuff, Nov 28, 2023.

  1. iThinkStuff

    iThinkStuff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    I'll admit, I didn't want to presume :)
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,417
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @iThinkStuff
    So, please enlighten us about the Mormon Apostles. The Biblical apostles were soul-winning, church planting missionaries. Usually they worked cross-culturally, especially after the book of Acts. All except James, who was martyred early, they all went out into the field as missionaries. Thomas is especially notable for having gone to India, where he was killed with a lance outside of Madras.

    So how does Mormonism say that their apostles are Biblical?
     
  3. iThinkStuff

    iThinkStuff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    For Mormons, the term apostle is taken to mean "special witness of Christ". What this means in practical terms is that the 12 (15, really) want everyone to assume that they have personally met Jesus. They will use veiled terms to express it, allude to "experiences too sacred to share", and hint at it a lot but not a one of them will come right out and say it, probably because that would be lying.

    One of the first cracks to form is discovering that not only are they just ordinary people without extraordinary experiences, they are also comfortable at lying and seeking their own glory. When they enter a room, they expect everyone to stand up and remain standing until they are given permission to sit. You are not allowed to question or vote against them. Every six months there is a "sustaining vote" held for them in their conferences. If you vote in opposition, you are told to visit your local ecclesiastical leader where you are promptly rebuked or ex-communicated. If there is a policy you dislike or find un-Christlike, too bad. They speak to Christ, don'tcha know, so you must be in rebellion against Christ.

    I had tremendous respect for them at one point in time. Now I consider them like a pack of Joel Osteens, except the wealth they have amassed would make Joel blush green in envy.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,417
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Very informative. Thank you.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. iThinkStuff

    iThinkStuff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    I think I answered most of that in the post above, but to the question about church planting and martydom...

    They plant Mormon churches like McDonald's franchises. Then, when the local branches are sufficiently stable and producing enough income, they announce that they are finally worthy of a temple. You'll notice this mostly happens in high net worth areas or areas with high property value (relatively speaking, of course). The temples are dedicated usually by an Apostle of some standing, sometimes even someone from the First Presidency (the Peter, James, and John of our age, so to speak) and they'll do odd vain things like put their autobiographies and pictures of themselves in the sealed cornerstones of the temple.

    I believe they mostly preach to the faithful. Sometimes press interviews, sometimes with government officials, but aside from the twice yearly broadcasted conferences you don't see them in public much.

    How are the next apostles chosen after one dies? Easy - the remaining apostles get together and have to vote unanimously on the replacement, usually someone who has already crawled into the ranks of the 70 or have some personal familial relation to someone else in the 12. Over the last 50 years, seldom an apostle is chosen who isn't also an MBA, lawyer, or doctor. Humble fishermen not so much.

    They aren't martyred. They live on the best income with the best medical care available in the western world and live comfortably into their late 90s or more. I'd have to research the last one to actually be "martyred", but I think it was Parley P. Pratt, who took as a multiple wife someone in the south (who was already married) while he was on his mission. The locals didn't take kindly to that.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  6. iThinkStuff

    iThinkStuff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,417
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Interesting reading, but wow, a real piece of work!
     
  8. iThinkStuff

    iThinkStuff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    I wrote up and delivered a statement of faith before I was baptized into my local church. Is that the kind of thing you're looking for? Other than that, I believe I stated a ways back who I know and believe Jesus to be. And honestly, aside from the core and fundamental things, I'll admit that I am rebuilding a lot from the ground up (as I've said several times).
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. iThinkStuff

    iThinkStuff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    11 wives weren't good enough. He need to take another man's wife as #12. Does that seem like a man who has met Jesus face to face?
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,417
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not in the slightest. And you haven't said so directly, but I agree with your implications that if the Christology isn't right, the religion isn't right. This is where every cult can be identified as a cult: what they say about Jesus Christ our Lord. The soteriology depends on Christ, the eschatology depends on Christ, the ecclesiology depends on Christ--everything does!
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,416
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My take is based on:Romans 8:9 (equating the Spirit of God with the Spirit of Christ) and 1 Peter 1:11 (equating the Spirit that inspired the OT writers with the Spirit of Christ.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    Faith:
    Baptist
    “On his mission”…. That’s funny, how does that line up with scripture!?! Or is he sooo special, Forget him!
     
    #52 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 11, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2023
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,918
    Likes Received:
    3,622
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. The South is kinda fickle about their women. (Sorry. I got a chuckle with your last sentence). :Wink
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. iThinkStuff

    iThinkStuff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Yeah I can't say I ever read anything about any of Jesus's apostles using missions as an excuse to collect wives....

    That being said, Mormon missions used to be about more than wife collecting campaigns. They used to be about wife-denying as well. What do I mean by wife-denying? Well, here's an interesting story from my own family history.

    My great-grandfather was a farmer in Idaho who by the age of 50 still had not managed to find himself a wife (let alone multiple wives). Somehow when other men were collecting them like Pokemon cards, my great-grandfather's isolation or lack of influence left him hanging high and dry. He was a good and faithful Mormon, had served a three year mission abroad, active in the church, etc, but the practice of the day was that the leaders of the church got first dibs on all the women, whether they already had multiples of them or not.

    Enter the woman who would become my great-grandmother. She was the third wife of one Samuel Harrison Smith, Joseph Smith's nephew. They had two children together, but ole Samuel apparently didn't much feel like taking care of them. They were on the point of starvation when the church finally "allowed" her to divorce Mr. Smith and marry my great-grandfather. So how did the church reward my great-grandfather for marrying the unwanted leftover of Joseph Smith's nephew? Why, by immediately separating him from his bride and sending him on another 3 year mission to England. His wife and stepsons were left to fend for themselves on his farm while he was away

    It's a miracle my grandfather was ever born - years after they were married, and when my great-grandfather was well into his 50's. He was the only child they were able to have together given the machinations of the church against them. Somehow they all stayed in the Mormon church and never quite saw it for what it is.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Weird. Some of my family are from Wales… I consider them the ultimate Non Conventional / Conformists church people ie they went with the Quakers, the Mormons, The Calvinist Methodists, the Baptists…everything but the Anglicans. My WELSH great grand father was a Primitive Baptist elder who served his community as a Welsh/English translator for the Welsh coal miner community in Western Pennsylvania. Grandpa was born prior to the mine accident that took my great grandfathers life. My grandfather moved to Scranton PA and married a 16 yr old girl from a Slovak coal miner turned pump contractor turned farmer. That guy was really family oriented and gathered his children and grandchildren on the farm and took care of them during the depression and beyond… they were Catholics and so when he and my mother married he converted to Catholicism. I was raised RC. That’s a strange story but typically American melting pot style intermarriage stuff. I now identify with the Old School baptists soooo welcome to the Children of God society! :)
     
    #55 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 11, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2023
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,088
    Likes Received:
    2,446
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So why didn't you tell me that your Welsh great grand father was a Primitive Baptist elder?... Welcome home, you just found your roots... Brother Glen:)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    896
    Likes Received:
    208
    Faith:
    Baptist
    OP, please be careful with this forum. It is a very divisive place.
     
  18. iThinkStuff

    iThinkStuff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2022
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    79
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    What have I said that was divisive?
     
  19. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    896
    Likes Received:
    208
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nothing.

    Either disregard my post or reread it.
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ahhh, I did … thanks. All part of being that particular Celtic clan( the sons of David ) that’s appropriate I’m thinking. :Wink
     
    #60 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 12, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2023
Loading...