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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 37818, Jan 20, 2024.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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  2. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    The “whole world” is the whole world.

    Not a subset thereof.

    If the Holy Spirit meant “only some”, He would not have said the whole world.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I thought the Holy Spirit said, "only some" quite a bit.

    By saying "many", or "for us", or even very specifically
    like they said about Jesus at His birth, in Matthew 1:21,
    "they shall call His Name Jesus,
    for He shall SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS."

    That's talking about the specific sins of specific people.

    You have to understand that "many", as one example of your "only some",
    is a limiting word, which then puts a restriction on other things said.

    "Whole world" doesn't put a restriction on "all", but "many"
    puts a restriction, from the Holy Spirit, on "all" or "the Whole world".


    • Matt. 20:28 “… just as the Son of Man did not come to be served,
    but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”


    • Matt. 26:28 “For this is My blood of the new covenant,
    which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”


    The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
    As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father;
    and I lay down My life for the sheep.”

    • Acts 13:48 “Now when the Gentiles heard this,
    they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord.

    And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”

    • Acts 20:28 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock,
    among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,

    to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”

    • Rom. 8:32-34 “He who did not spare His own Son,
    but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him

    also freely give us all things?
    Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
    Who is he who condemns?
    It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen,
    who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.”

    • Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren,
    that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest

    in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”

    • Heb. 9:15, 28 “And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant,
    by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions

    under the first covenant, that those who are called
    may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
    So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
    To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time,
    apart from sin, for salvation.”

    • Rev. 5:9 “And they sang a new song, saying:
    You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals;

    for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood
    out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”

     
    #43 Alan Gross, Jan 31, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2024
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 20:16, . . . for many be called, but few chosen.
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    In the High Priestly prayer of Christ,
    Jesus does not pray for the world in general,
    but for those who were given to Him by His Father.


    John 17:2, 6, 9, 11, 12, 24;

    “As You have given Him authority over all flesh,
    that He should give eternal life
    to as many as You have given Him.

    "I have manifested Your name
    to the men
    whom You have given Me out of the world
    .


    "They were Yours, You gave them to Me,
    and they have kept Your word.

    "I pray for them.

    "I do not pray for the world
    but for those whom You have given Me,

    for they are Yours.

    "Now I am no longer in the world,
    but these are in the world,
    and I come to You.

    "Holy Father, keep through Your name
    those whom You have given Me,
    that they may be one as We are.


    "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name.

    "Those whom You gave Me I have kept;
    and none of them is lost except the son of perdition,
    that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

    "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me
    may be with Me where I am,
    that they may behold My glory which You have given Me;


    "for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.”
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "Election has to do with the purposing and planning of salvation

    "The atonement has to do with the provision of it.

    "We come now to study the application
    and communication of salvation to the elect.


    I. THE OUTWARD/ GENERAL CALL.

    "The Scripture clearly speaks of two different calls. The first one in the order of occurrence is known generally as the Outward/ General or External call. The following Scriptures refer to this call: Isa. 45:22; 55:6; Matt. 9:13; 11:28; 22:14; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32; Rev. 22:17..."

    1. THE OUTWARD/ GENERAL CALL
    IS THROUGH THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL.


    "It was by means of the gospel that Jesus called sinners to repentance. Today every presentation of the gospel is a call to men to forsake sin and trust Christ. The preaching of the gospel is also properly attended by a setting forth of man's need of salvation and of his duty and responsibility under God to repent and believe (Acts 17:30)...."

    2. THIS OUTWARD/ GENERAL CALL IS AN INDIRECT CALL OF THE SPIRIT.


    "See the discussion of:
    The indirect work of the Spirit in the lost in Chapter IX."


    3. THIS OUTWARD/ GENERAL CALL, THEREFORE, IS GENERAL.

    "By this we mean that it is not confined to the elect (Matt. 22:14). We are commanded to preach the gospel to all. This call is intended for all men, though all do not hear it. This is true just as all men are commanded to repent (Acts 17:30), even though all men do not hear this command."

    4. THIS OUTWARD/ GENERAL CALL, OF ITSELF, IS ALWAYS INEFFECTIVE.

    To Israel God said: "When I called, ye did not answer" (Isa. 65:12). The call referred to here was an outward call similar to the call now under discussion. Because of man's depravity, the preaching of the gospel alone is never sufficient to bring him to Christ. He needs more than an outward call. The gospel "is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Rom. 1:16); but "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him, and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged" (1 Cor. 2:14). Man must be enabled to turn from sin and believe on Christ. Jer. 13:23; John 12:39,40; 6:44,65...."

    5. THIS OUTWARD/ GENERAL CALL IS SINCERE.


    "Arminians object that the Calvinistic system of doctrine makes a general call insincere. Sincere means "being in reality as in appearance. Intending precisely what one says or what one appears to intend." Having defined the term under discussion, we are now prepared to examine into the exact grounds of this objection. Three Calvinistic teachings are pointed out as rendering a general call insincere. They are:

    (1) The teaching that man by nature is unable to turn from sin to Christ.

    (2) The teaching as to God's elective purpose
    to save only a portion of Adam's race.

    (3) The doctrine of a limited atonement.

    "God's general call is in appearance no more than it is in reality. And He appears to intend no more than He does actually intend. This does not appear as something that all men can respond to nor as something that will enable men to come to Christ or that will necessarily impel them to come.

    "Nor does this call appear to affirm that God has made a futile provision of salvation for those who persist in unbelief. In this call God appears to intend that all men are welcome if they will come; that all who come will be received. He actually intends just this.

    "It is just as much a Bible truth that all who come to Christ will be saved as it is that only the elect will be saved. We can heartily and gladly subscribe to the New Hampshire Declaration of Faith in saying that "nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner on earth except his own inherent depravity and voluntary refusal to submit to the Lord Jesus Christ." In other words, these are the things that send the sinner to Hell."

    ...

    II. THE INWARD/ EFFECTIVE CALL.

    "The following Scriptures refer to the Inward/ Effective Call: Acts 2:39; Rom. 1:6; 8.28,30; 9:11,24; 1 Cor. 1:1,26; 7:15; Gal. 1:15; 5:8; Eph. 4:4; Col. 3:15; 1 Thess. 5:24; 2 Thess. 2:14; 2 Tim. 1:9; Heb. 9:15; 1 Pet. 1.15; 2:9; 3:9; 5:10; 2 Pet. 1:3,10; Jude 1."

    1. THIS INWARD/ EFFECTIVE CALL IS A DIRECT CALL THROUGH THE SPIRIT


    "The Holy Spirit takes the preached gospel and opening the heart of the sinner (Acts 16:14), applies the word to the heart in regenerating power. It is then, and only then, that man is able to understand and receive the things of the Spirit of God. Thus the inward call is also through the gospel, but it is through the gospel as applied by the Holy Spirit..."

    2. THIS INWARD/ EFFECTIVE CALL IS PARTICULAR.

    "By means of it the chosen objects of God's saving grace are singled out.

    3. THIS INWARD/ EFFECTIVE CALL IS ALWAYS EFFECTIVE.

    "It is manifest that the Scriptures given at the beginning of the discussion of this call refer to an effective and efficient call. This call is never resisted; yet, in responding to it, man acts voluntarily and freely. See chapter on "The Free Agency of Man." The effectiveness of this call is shown by Rom. 8:28, 30; 1 Cor. 1:24."

    From: SIMMONS- THE OUTWARD AND INWARD CALLS.

    ...

    Now, we're ready to think (w/ Gill), about:

    "for many be called"; externally, (note: the Outward/ General Call)
    under the ministration of the Gospel,
    as the Jews in general were, by Christ and His apostles;

    "but few chosen"; in Christ from all eternity, (the Elect)
    both to grace and glory;
    and in consequence, and as an evidence of it,
    but few among the Jews;
    as also in the Gentile world, comparatively speaking:

    "and even but a few of those that are outwardly called,
    are inwardly and effectually called (the Inward/ Effectual Call, obviously)
    by the powerful grace of God, (to His Elect)
    out of darkness into marvellous light,
    into the grace and liberty of the Gospel, into communion with Christ,
    and to the obtaining His kingdom and glory,
    according to the eternal purpose of God."
     
  7. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    There are many when you count the whole world.
     
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