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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Apr 15, 2024.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You have no Scripture for that.

    Saying what is not according to God's word, does not make a falsehood so.
     
    #61 37818, Apr 17, 2024
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You should stop doing so.
     
    #62 KenH, Apr 17, 2024
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Don't be a false accuser. Prove I did.
     
    #63 37818, Apr 17, 2024
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not at issue, Ephesians 1:4, . . . According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: . . .

    This choosing precedes our knowing we are saved and our election. There is no Scripture to the contrary.


    2 Peter 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . .
     
    #64 37818, Apr 17, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The words elected and chosen are synonyms. Just as one can say that a person was elected to a position or that a person was chosen for a position. They mean the same thing.
     
    #65 KenH, Apr 17, 2024
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God's elect, chosen by God the Father before the world began and given to God the Son to be Surety, are called in time. Election happened before the world was created. Those chosen by God are effectually called in time during their life on this earth.
     
    #66 KenH, Apr 17, 2024
  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Both, Paul had to change his mind as to who Christ was and God had called him for a specific purpose. God speaking to Ananias "Go, for he {Paul} is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;" Act 9:15 We see Paul expand on the moment of his calling in Acts of the Apostles 26:16

    If you mean salvation as the first-fruit of the Spirit then I would say yes as that comes through faith in Christ.

    Read Joel 2:1-32 to get your answer. Short answer it is when Christ returns. Can anyone freely trust in God for salvation, YES. That is why it is called a free will.


    Acts 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
    Gal 3:2 YLT this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith? [or
    out of hearing of faith]
    Gal 3:14 YLT that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith. --- What is, "the faith," the called hear, out of which they receive the Spirit? Is it not the obedient death and thus resurrection of Jesus the Christ.

    Christ did not become the "obedience of faith" it was because of His obedient faith. Those that trust in the risen Christ are saved. We are not saved by His death but by His life.
     
    #67 Silverhair, Apr 17, 2024
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not what Bible teaches.
    Not at issue.
     
    #68 37818, Apr 17, 2024
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not in Mark 13:20, . . . the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen . . . .
     
    #69 37818, Apr 17, 2024
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does. Electing an act of God, not man. God is not waiting on man to make a move, then God makes a move, then man makes a move, then God makes a move, etc. God is not like the gods of Greek mythology or like the "superheroes" in modern day Marvel Comics movies, regardless of how many times some people on this board write like He is.
     
    #70 KenH, Apr 17, 2024
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    There is no Scripture to show the election to be before time.

    2 Peter 1:10, . . . give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . .

    What is the need to do so? If the election is before time, how? Since it would not really be possible to do so.
     
    #71 37818, Apr 17, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    From the Blue Letter Bible on the word "elect" - Strong's Definitions:

    ἐκλεκτός eklektós, ek-lek-tos'; select; by implication, favorite:—chosen, elect.
     
    #72 KenH, Apr 17, 2024
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Election happened way back in eternity before the world began - it was an action in the mind of God.

    Calling happens in time when the individuals whom God elected are regenerated(born anew) and given spiritual life by God the Holy Spirit and given repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus.
     
    #73 KenH, Apr 17, 2024
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The written word of God does not teach that. You have no Scripture to support the argument.
    Assuming limited atonement is believed and taught. How can any lost persons hear Christ paid for one's sins in order to know Christ had died them?
    Matthew 7:21-23.
    Luke 8:13.
     
    #74 37818, Apr 17, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is what the Bible teaches.

    God brings His elect under the hearing of the gospel of Christ during their lifetime(example: for me that was in June 2021) and the Holy Spirit then regenerates them, giving them spiritual life(born anew), so that they can now understand the gospel, and He gives them the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus, and God preserves them while on this earth and if they die, in heaven, until Christ returns and establishes the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness.
     
    #75 KenH, Apr 17, 2024
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    And no cited Scripture?

    You did not answer,
     
    #76 37818, Apr 17, 2024
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    I believe I did. The fact that God's elect are given the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus means that Christ died as their substitute. Otherwise, they would not have repented from dead works and believe in Christ.

    The gospel of Christ is taught from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21. The Word of God is the entire Bible.
     
    #77 KenH, Apr 17, 2024
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God's choosing, yes. The election follows it's call in time.
    But you didn't. And your following answer doesn't explain how any yet lost persons can objectively know Christ died for one, in the belief Christ did not die for everyone.
     
    #78 37818, Apr 17, 2024
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #79 37818, Apr 17, 2024
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism falsely claims the "gift" of Ephesians 2:8-9 includes faith, as in beliefs instilled by irresistible grace into those unable to put their own faith toward God and His Christ. However, the Greek grammar of the verse dictates that the gift is "salvation by grace" and not faith.

    The revelation of God is His gracious gift, both general and special revelation.

    When do lost sinners "know" Him. Only after they have been transferred into Christ, undergone and washing of regeneration, and have been indwelt. Believers "know" Him when we are in Him and He is in us.

    Thus the opening post of this now 4 page thread, is just another fiction, an unstudied relic of the dark ages.
     
    #80 Van, Apr 17, 2024
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