Featured SIN TO DEATH

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Nonsense. I have done no such thing. I believe what the bible teaches about God's attributes, nothing more nothing less.

It is your doctrine that is flagrantly unbiblical when it comes to God's attributes, since you find it necessary to depart from the topic of your own thread. Your doctrines are based on Greek doctrines, not biblical ones and I can prove it and am not afraid to do so, here and now on this thread or at any time or thread of your choosing.

You, on the other hand, won't do anything but be insulting and dismissive and will be perpetually the opposite of substantive because you know that am not bluffing.

 

Matthew 12:32-home generators

MATTHEW 12:32-"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

 

1 John 5:16 (NASB)
If anyone sees his brother sinning not leading to death, he shall ask and God will, for him, give life to those who commit sin not leading t o death. There is sin to death; I am not saying that he should ask about that.

The OP claims that brother must mean a person already given eternal life, rather than a relation, such as a professing member of his local church, but this view is precluded. For a sin does not cause "death" immediately, but the condemnation results in the loss of life when judgement occurs at physical death. Thus any sin will not lead to death for those already given life when they were made alive together with Christ spiritually during their physical life. However a "professing believer" would not already have eternal life, and thus can be forgiven. However, a professing believer not having eternal life cannot obtain that life if he or she is continues to commit the sin leading to death, which is rejection of Christ and His gospel.

 

The sin unto death is very plain to me: any believer who interferes with God's work may find themselves on an early trip to Heaven. However, I do not believe that a saved person can lose his or her salvation, as the OP states. I do not agree that the context shows spiritual death as opposed to physical death. Furthermore, note that Hell is literal and physical, not just spiritual death, which is what a person endures prior to salvation, while still physically alive! (Eph. 2:1).

Ever hear the sermon by E. J. Daniels, "God's Three Deadline." This sin is one of his points, and I think he did a great job. But he also did not believe that a Christian can lose salvation.

My Dad once pastored in Tennessee, and five individuals decided to kick him out for no particular reason. (One of them actually said essentially that to my brother!) They conspired to bring in members for the vote who had not been there in a long time. (A church constitution should prevent that with a rule on when a membership lapses.) They succeeded, though my Dad was seeing God do great things, with many saved. However, after they ended their campaign, God judged the leaders one by one: death in a car accident, death by cancer, etc. My oldest sister can tell the whole story. I was just a kid, and did not go into the business meeting where they roasted my Dad. (The anecdote is not what proves the exegesis, just to be clear.)

 

You didn't address my point on the meaning of spiritual and physical death.

 

There is no reason to read the passages and take them to mean anything other than what they appear to mean by simply reading them. They aren't hard to understand nor are they written in any sort of code or hidden language that only the initiated can understand or in any other way that requires in depth study of any sort. Just read them. They mean precisely what any home-schooled third grade child would understand them to mean if you read them to him.

The application of the passages used in OP, however, become problematic when you ignore the fact that they were not written to, for or about believers in this dispensation but rather they were written by those who agreed with Paul to minister only to the "circumcision" which are those who believed under the dispensation of law, while Paul the "uncircumcision" (i.e. Gentiles).

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.​

 

Ditto

 

Wrong, as they had not yet been given life!!!!!!

 

I asked this question several times in another thread and no one would answer me, least of all the individual that I was directly asking. I was, therefore, compelled to reply when I say this direct answer to the question.

Given the fact that death is at the very center of the Christian faith, it's rather amazing the degree to which the average Christian is ignorant of the answer to the question, "What does it mean to die?" The above quoted answer comes as close as I've ever seen anyone get to the right answer on any Christian web forum where, ironically, ignorance of the scriptures seems to be at it's apex (i.e. not counting cults like the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Branch Davidians (yes they still exist), Yahweh Ben Yehweh, Moonies, etc.).

As indicated in the above quoted answer, there are two kinds of death, spiritual and physical. In both cases death is a spiritual separation. Stated simply...

Physical death happens when one's spirit is separated from their physical body. Spiritual death happens when one is separated from God.

Physical death is the death that all humans have an appointment with....

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

Spiritual death typically happens when one sins, (i.e. not before)...

Romans 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.​

Jesus died in BOTH ways! He did so voluntarily and while entirely innocent of any sin...

John 10:17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.​

First He was separated from the Father, whom He referred to as "my God" (John 20:17)

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?​

Shortly after Jesus' spirit left His physical body...

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.​

After this, Jesus did not ascend immediately to the Father but spent three days in the grave and, more specifically, in the place of the righteous dead which Jesus called "Paradise", also known as Abraham's Bosom....

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
​

After this, Jesus rose physically from the dead but cautioned Mary not to cling to Him because He hadn't yet ascended to the Father. That ascension was, however immanent....

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”
​

And so, in every way, Jesus our Lord has truly overcome death. He undid the curse of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Law (same thing) by nailing it to the cross (Galatians 3:13 & Colossians 2:14), thereby allowing God to not only deal with each individual on the basis of their own sin and not the sins of their ancestors (Ezekiel 18; Romans 5:19) but to justly forgive each of us of our sin when we humble ourselves before Him and ask for the free gift that He offers which is both forgiveness and reconciliation; rescue from the eternal separation from Him that our sins have earned by virtue of God the Son, the eternally existent Creator of all things, having suffered that fate in our stead.

 

Well, capital punishment is carried out by the state. Not sure if John is concerned about secular laws here. It is an interesting thought though.

peace to you

 

You have made a couple of references to the fact that Paul was called to the Gentiles while Peter was to the Jews. Are you saying that there are 2 gospels? Do we only need Paul's epistles?

 

A careful reading of the Bible will reveal that there are numerous passages in the Bible that the Church unanimously believed for 1,500 taught the conditional security of the Christian—that is, conditional upon the Christian’s continued faith in Christ as opposed to the Christian’s apostasy from the Christian faith. A careful reading of the Bible will also reveal that there are several passages in the Bible that some Baptists claim teach eternal security, but which, when read in context, especially in the Greek New Testament from which they were translated, do not teach that doctrine at all! Indeed, some of these passages, like John 10:27-29, when compared with the parallel passage in Isa. 43:1-28, really teach that the Christian’s security is conditional upon his continued faithfulness.

John 10:27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.”

Isa. 43:10. “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
11. “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
12. “It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And I am God.
13. “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”

Notice especially v. 13, “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”

But continue reading the rest of the chapter and what do you find,

22. “Yet you have not called on Me, O Jacob; But you have become weary of Me, O Israel.”

And finally,

28. “So I will pollute the princes of the sanctuary, And I will consign Jacob to the ban and Israel to revilement.”

The New Revised Standard Version translates v. 28,

28. Therefore I profaned the princes of the sanctuary,
I delivered Jacob to utter destruction,
and Israel to reviling.

Being delivered to utter destruction does not sound like eternal security to me!

And, so it is with all of the “proof texts” for the doctrine of eternal security. Should Baptists believe in a doctrine that was first conceived in the 16th century; or should they believe in the doctrine taught by Christ and His apostles, and the Early Church Fathers whom it pleased God to use to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity and to establish the New Testament Canon?

(All quotations from the Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995, unless otherwise noted)