"Forsake sin" FOR Salvation?

I admire the ministry of the late Dr.S. Lewis Johnson very much.Dr.MacArthur has regarded him as a mentor in the Faith.I'm glad you appreciate him EDs;despite his strong Calvinism.

 

Irony of ironies! Tell me Sp, you really are blind of your ways aren't you?

 

[SIGH!]*Yeah, I guess "turn from sin = repent from sin," in the sense that you are intending.

However, in the sense of the use of the Hebrew and Greek languages, these words rendered as 'repent' and 'turn' are not synonomous, at all, which was my objection, considering I have a decided aversion to "reading theology" intothe Scripture's texts.

And the word rendered as the English word "repent" in Isa. 59:20 in the NIV and TNIV is the word "shuwb" (Strong #7725) which has the force of "turn" or return" as all the other major standard versions render this word, in about every instance, I believe, except for the KJV (which renders "shuwb" three times as "repent", and in which case, the RV and ASV 'updates' this (and the NKJV follows suit) by more accurately rendering this also as "turn", making it basically consistent with the other over 500 uses of that Hebrew word in Scripture.

There is also a great deal of difference between "shuwb" and "nacham"
(Strong #5162) which is, I believe, the Hebrew word normally rendered as "repent" in the OT, and carries the idea of 'to be eased', in its force, and is rendered as 'comfort, 'ease,' or 'repent.'

Likewise, the NT words 'metamellomai', (to care afterward, or differently or 'feel differently' and carrying the implied idea of regret, which word is not used as touching on salvation, to my knowledge) and "metanoeO/metanoia" (to think afterward, or differently or "change one's mind" or 'think differently') are both far different than "epistrephO" (to turn or 'convert').

Incidentally, Judas did 'metamellomai' (regret), however he did not 'metanoeO' (think differently), hence receive the gift of salvation. "'Regret' ain't where its at!" in the vernacular.

Additionally, as I have pointed out repeatedly, the phrases of "repent of/from (one's) sin", as well as "turn from sin" are neither found in Scripture, to my knowledge, in any standard version, with this single exception, here. One can find a few variants (some 5-10, depending on which version) of "turn from sin" with a few additional words in most standard versions in the OT, but even in this is never speaking unambigiously of personal salvation, to my knowledge, although I did not do an exhaustive study of the verses, I admit.

I have posted no fewer than ten times in 2 1/2 years, now on the BB, fairly exhaustive definitions and expositions of repentance regarding salvation, and why this repentance that is indeed necessary, is not turning from or feeling sorry for one's sin(s). If one has managed to miss all of them, somehow (and you have been on the BB for longer than I have), just try this link.

http://www.baptistboard.com/search.php?searchid=454030

It should cover about all of them, and in far more detail than I have either the time or patience for, this evening. I don't mean to sound 'short,' but it seems that it has fallen on completely deaf ears, somehow, and I simply don't physically feel up to staying up till 4 AM, yet once again, to compose it "just one more time." Maybe my P.S. footnote will help some to remember this, however.

Ed

P.S. * [SIGH!] I just 'repented' here, in the OT sense. Look at the above definition, where "shuwb" properly means exactly that, a heavy sigh.

 

Ed, your link doesn't work. It reads

"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

You "shuwb" provide another link

 

I let out a loud guffaw on your last line.

 

Ok Lou, I'll bite. Show me where MacArthur actually teaches that one must forsake sin FOR salvation. I expect to see these words and explaination by JM. The quote you provided doesn't say "Forsake sin for salvation" it is an exhortation to repentence from dead works and faith toward God, in my opinion.

One wonders if you believe repentance is not needed UNTO salvation. I see nothing here in what you have presented as JM's views that says what you say he is teaching. I don't have his book. So I can't look at the above quote in its context. Please provide a larger portion of it.

 

I dunno why it doesn't work.

I'll try to do this one more time and see what happens. :type:

http://www.baptistboard.com/search.php?searchid=454170

Sending, and I will check.

Ok, I just checked, and it worked for me, this time, so you might try it again.

The previous time I got the same message as you did, for some reason.

BTW, I like your humor, as well, as this is somwhat akin to mine.

"When it comes to laughs, go for the 'cheapies'!"

It's what I do. :thumbs:

Hey, you can get in ten 'cheapies" for the cost of one good laugh! [Big Grin!]

Ed

P.S. Folks, this post and the link to posts is for informational purposes, not because I have any great desire to impress anyone with my knowledge, or let them see my lack of the same (since at least one individual on this subject has doubted my exegetical skills, which is in itself, telling, since I never claimed to have any such in the first place), as the case may be.

I assure all, I have no particular need to have my ego stroked in any way, and I don't get any great thrill in decrying any other, by any stretch, so I try and not let anything seem 'personal.'

Like some others have posted, this is not personal, in any manner. I have nothing to sell, nor any homepage or 'blog spot' that I want folks to read, as this is my one and only 'public forum' where I regularly appear in any manner, whatsoever. I do not even have any of the skills necessary to accomplish the last two things, if I even wished to do so, I assure you.

I have to get my bride :love2: to 'fix' to the computer, when and if I mess something up, as I have no ability to undo any my own "goofs," even.

My call of "Honey! Can I et you to fix the computer? I messed it up, somehow!" is usually followed with her three part response of "Again??" "[Sigh!]"

 

Lou Martuneac is, as am I, on record on the BB, saying we both believe repentance is indeed necessary for salvation. (That means it's a "requirement", for you sports fans without good access to Messers Roget and Webster!)

In fact, I am on record more than ten times where I have, in essence, said this, starting here, in this thread, in my first month on the BB:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=4734&highlight=repent+turn+sins

However, I am also fully on record, just as many times, as refusing to allow someone else to impose their definition of the repentance that is required for salvation, as "repentance from sin(s)" on the Biblical texts. I believe, if my memory serves, that Lou Martuneac has said effectively the same thing, as well.

Ed

 

Hang in there ED, someday maybe in your life time, they will quit saying "repent of your sins and be saved"............................ :laugh: :BangHead:

I should of said "we"............

 

Hello Skypair, it's been a long time. I trust you are well?

I agree with what you said about salvation and sanctification, but I think it is the soul that is composed of the mind, will and emotions, not the spirit. Everyone, even the lost, has (or rather is) a living soul with a completely functioning mind, will and emotions (granted, some "function" a bit better than others perhaps! :laugh: ).

So I don't think it's the soul that is dead and needs to be regenerated, I think it's the spirit. All men are born living souls who are spiritually dead. That's why we can't see, hear, touch, taste, smell or in any way perceive or have a conscious awareness of God, He is Spirit and dwells in a spiritual realm that we are dead to. It's like a dead body in a casket at a funeral that has no conscious awareness of the life that is going on around it, it's the same way with the spirit, men are born dead to the world of God which is going on all around us. Unless we are born again we cannot even "see" that spiritual Kingdom or realm of Heaven. But once we are are born again we are raised in the spirit from death to life and our dead spiritual eyes and ears are opened to see and hear and discern the spiritual things of God and His Kingdom. That's why eternal life is a gift of God, because a man can no more do anything to restore himself to spiritual life than a dead body can to restore itself to physical life.

And about behavior being coequal with believing, I am only half Baptist, the other half is Pentecostal so I have no problem understanding, both doctrinally as well as experientially, that those who abide in the Vine will bear the fruit of righteousness that the Vine produces . . .

And to God be the glory!

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

Then how can the "soul that sinneth, shall die", if its already dead ????????

 

Hello Brother Bob,

I didn't say the soul is already dead. Quite the opposite, I said the soul is not dead, but alive. It's the spirit that is dead.

The moment of conception is the conception of a living soul which life will continue, even after the death of the body, until the day of judgment at which time the sinner will be cast body and soul into the lake of fire and will perish, ergo, "the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

Why do you speak of yourself in the third person? It's weird. Wiggin me out.

 

Now this is a substantive response.

And I also have some lovely oceanfront property for sale, at a great price, right here in central KY. :thumbs:

I spoke "in the "first person'" 18 times in the post, by my count. I spoke in "the third person" only to identify for others, and be compared with other posters on the BB. I uses the "BB handles" for that whenever I do.

Ed

 

I will trade ya 4 million shares in a new company called Ponzi Incorporated for title to your property. Just sign it over to me and send it to 1234 Ponzi Scheme Lane, Wacko Texas, 73245.

And if yer countin yer pronouns...weeds are growing on the farm. :laugh:

 

So did Jesus.