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Featured “I was predestined to be an Arminian or I chose to be a Calvinist.”

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    If I am wrong on my views of salvation and I stand before God and He asks, "Why did you believe wrongly about the doctrines of salvation?" Then, I could rightly claim, "God, you are the one who predestined me to believe this way. If you wanted me to be Calvinistic then you should have graced me with more understanding on that subject."

    And if you, the Calvinistic readers, are wrong, and God asks, "Why did you believe wrongly about the doctrines of salvation?" Then, your only answer can be, "I freely chose wrongly."

    So, “We were either predestined to be an Arminian or we chose to be a Calvinist.”
     
    #1 Skandelon, Sep 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2012
  2. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member

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    ...but only if I was wrong. ...so this is not likely to an issue :);):cool:
     
  3. WITBOTL

    WITBOTL New Member

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    No Skan, I think what really will happen is you will understand the truth of predestination at some later date and having your understanding enlightened you will exercise your imperfect will to change your views on predestination. When you stand before God he will say to you, "See, by mercy I predestinated you to understand the truth of this doctrine and in the time appointed I gave you the understanding you needed and you chose that which I predestinated you to choose. My will, as always be done."

    The other guy will try to use the "I just wasn't predestinated that way excuse" and he will say "Still, you had Moses and the prophets to persuade you I did not force you to choose what you chose. That I did not predestinate you to a proper understanding in the sovereign counsel of my will does not absolve you of the choices you freely made. You yourself insisted that you made these choices and that my will is irrelevant, you have naught to speak against me. Nay, you are further condemned because in my longsuffering I gave you many opportunities to know the truth and still you would not. "



     
  4. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Couldn't decide which one was more appropriate.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

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    1ST picture needs a shave and a cigarette.

    2ND picture needs Rogaine.... :D :wavey:
     
  6. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    Romans chap 9 verse 19--Thou will say then unto me,WHY doeth he(God) yet find fault?For who hath resisted his will?

    20-NAYbut,O man,who art thou that repliest against God?Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it,Why hast thou made me thus?

    21-Hath not the potter power over the clay,of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour,and another vessel unto dishonour?

    Mankind is born into this world with a sin nature and are by nature the enemies of God,they rebel against a Holy God.

    So is it wrong for a Holy God to do whatever he pleases with men.ALL of us deserve the lowest depths of HELL,but he shows mercy and giveth grace unto his sheep the elect according to his will :)
     
  7. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    See the previous aforementioned picture of Jean Luc Picard.
     
  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member

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    Love it! Thanks for the thought experiment.
     
  9. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Nice! Love it
     
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Your premise is faulty. God would not predestine one of His own to believe something contrary to Scripture!
     
  11. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    So you are either concluding that men like myself, Wesley, CS Lewis, AW Tozer, Billy Graham, JRR Tolkien and many others were not 'one of his own' OR that these men all freely chose to reject Calvinism (by which you are admitting that libertarian freedom is possible).

    Which one?
     
  12. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Jbh28, I don't like accusations of straw man without some explanation as to why you believe it to be misrepresentative.

    What specifically misrepresent Calvinism and why?
     
  13. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    You lost me...
     
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    Where did they originate from? What aspects of our lives are predestined and what are the result of free will...and how can they coexist?
     
  15. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    Good question!
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member

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    OK....so before you start off on your tangent....tell me exactly what are you rejecting? If you prefer, what are you embracing that the "Calvinist" is not? Lastly, you appear to be attempting to separate Christians into categories. For example, you lump a Roman Catholic with an Arminian Methodist, with an Anglican, with a Baptist etc..... so where is the common thread & why dont you see that thread in the "Calvinist"?
     
  17. SovereignMercy

    SovereignMercy New Member

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    Jesus, the One who builds His church (and the gates of hell can't stand against it), the Author and Finisher of our faith, says the Spirit will, not might, guide us into All truth. That includes the doctrines of grace which are so clearly taught throughout scripture and especially the Gospel of John. Read the whole book in context. All of His sheep will come to believe all of His truth. Thankfully those who reject it will finally be silent! What a blessed day! If you believe that your so-called "free will" is the deciding factor in salvation, then you are saved by your own work and that is what you are trusting in as the determining factor in your salvation. You believe you will get to heaven because of your choice. You then are not trusting Jesus and His work and you will be judged according to the final passage below.

    However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

    Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
     
  18. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    Ignoring the fact that you don't seem to think Arminians are saved...

    ...if "ALL OF HIS SHEEP WILL COME TO BELIEVE AL OF HIS TRUTH." Are you refering to this life on earth, or once we meet our maker?

    If this life on earth, would you then say that those who have an incorrect view of infant baptism are not "his sheep"? what about their view of the end times? Or of Alcohol? Can you account for ANY different theological positions among true Christians? or not?
     
  19. SovereignMercy

    SovereignMercy New Member

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    Since the Spirit will guide you (the elect) into all truth, the text makes it obvious we don't all start out there.
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member

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    SM,

    That text is speaking of the fact that the apostles would be guided into all truth,not each individual sheep.

    There are some in here who resist Gods grace today,who over time will come to truth on it tommorow.
    There are some who are saved who do not understand why or how yet. There are some who are religious but not saved.
    There are some who will oppose truth right up until mt 7:21-24.
     
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