“Real” Ability of all God’s Creatures to Respond to the Influence of Him/Seek Truth

As he already explained, he stated your view of election to be a fairy tale. It is in regards to the mechanics of the SAME GOSPEL...your accusation is false.

Do we believe in the same Gospel? Do you believe we are saved by grace alone through faith alone? I do.

Do I resist the content of your theology violently? No need to as I once leaned towards your sideline...but I do disagree with your theology, and using your phraseology, I do think your logic, hermeneutic and interpretation to be "out to lunch".

The difference between you and I is the fact I do not question the salvation of those who do not believe identically to what I do.

 

DHK,

The account says that it was His daughters sin that schemed and planned the drunkenness and incest;

it is the daughters doing ,vs 33 says he perceived not....

So DHK....not only did nGod not use this term of Lot as you would like to do, but the evidence does not support you errent ideas.

 

Seek God

i don't remember a time that I didn't want to seek God. The scripture says there is no one who seeks God so there must of been a time i didn't. I am sorry I'm not like most. I never was forced to go to church and learn about God. I was real young when I started going to church with my next door neighbor. My brothers didn't have go I went by my self with just my next door neighbor. I was always taught that God loved the world, and there was an opportunity for all people through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That Jesus is the only way to God.

It wasn't until 1993 when I started talking to people online that I heard about Calvinism and it was through a universalism-Calvinist i call him, i didn't come up with that stuff on my own. If you met me back then I was calling them stuff to back then. I starting talking to Calvinist and found out they were not Universalist.

I believe in the elect of God, that will bring an amount saved that didn't seek God, but God seek them through His elect that can not be counted. I am not going to argue that elect, not the believers, were just called to do a work that God already prepared them to do.

I believe in the elect and also those who God is including with them those who hear the Gospel of their salvation having believed. In other words i have not turned away from what God convinced me in my youth.

I was always taught that God loved the world, and there was an opportunity for all people through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That Jesus is the only way to God.

 

Iconoclast...

Oh, C'mon Iconoclast. Gimmie a break. Quit with the grandstanding.

I did not use any words that are beyond your understanding. Nothing I posted is too "deep" for you, or "over your head".

Its absolutly clear as a bell regarding what I am my posting to you on this thread.

Because of what the scriptures teach, I do not believe that the view of "election/predestination" that you hold to is true. God does not "elect" certain "luck ones" for salvation as you believe, while "electing" all the other "unlucky" ones to hell, as you believe..

God has elected to save some people. Those ones are the "whosoever wills". He is not going to save the "whosoever wonts".

Every person that comes into the world recieves "Light" that they can heed, and be saved, or reject and be lost. That "Light" of course, is the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are no "lucky" ones who get to go to heaven because they were "previously selected", while the "unlucky" ones burn...as you clearly promote.

I hope you can "fully process" that. I dont think I can make it any simpler for you.

God bless.

 

WEBDOG,
Good response...

This was not the case in post 171 however, which I first responded to.

which was this;

Do you see it now ?.....this is before he said my view was off.

You cannot just dismiss this statement, or say that this is acceptable..at least I cannot.
That is why I say he has gone overboard. I offer a challenge to him because this is a severe statement on his part that he needs to address. [not necessarily to me, as I do not expect him , or several others here to be in agreement at this time.] Webdog at the time being we do not see much eye to eye. That is understandable things being what they are.
You get nervous when I raise a question about where someone stands in reference to the truth of the gospel. we cannot see hearts, just the posts.
if I posted something strange about the trinity tomorrow I would expect you to challenge me point blank about where I stood.
The purpose of God in election includes Jesus being the elect Servant. this is not a light secondary issue to just brush off.

 

Benjamin,

It might seem deceitful to you because it is the biblical teaching. With your pollyanna view anything that is biblically balanced would seen deceitful.
The things I listed you still cannot process...so you keep re-wording my clear statements to say what i did not say......your connecting the dots......is in reality the part you cannot understand, so naturally it is evil calvinism and calvinists.....ruining all the good parts of the gospel.
I am very upfront with my witnessing....and I speak the truth without re-inventing it.

Not only are unbelievers without excuse, but they cannot believe unless God allows them to. Have you ever pointed that out to someone,Benjamin.....
no of course not. Your evidentialism form of apologetic will not allow you to state that even if the conversation goes that way.....so much for your statement about salvation being all of the Lord.
I do thank you for offering your understanding...or lack of the same.

here is an example from your post....

What I have posted is clear to anyone who reads it as posted.You have a chip on your shoulder that does not impress me.
Several times I have posted that God's elect are a multitude, that is what I believe because it is the biblical teaching.....you keep changing my words to a preselected few..I never said that. That is your rebellion against the truth that makes you say that,as you do.
You can disagree...but i will speak for myself if you do not mind. And even if you do mind. your re-wording my statements and attributing sinister motives to me is a concession on your part,that unless you proceed this way, you cannot feel good about your point of view.

 

Nothing changed from that post to his first...you just approached the first with your presupposition.

Odd...because I knew exactly what he was getting at. So based on your action, if you come with your presuppositions in tow, it is THEN you are allowed to question the salvation of others? You never addressed the Gospel question...do we believe in the same Gospel?

I think the grandstanding comment of a fellow poster would fit in well here

You are right...I would never question your salvation based on your soteriology. You should employ the same.

Nervous?!? :laugh: You are funny!

If by "challenge" you mean ask for clarification, certainly. If by "challenge" you mean start with a false presupposition and blast your salvation...certainly not.

...and nowhere did AIC "brush off" this fact. It was invented in your head.

 

Well...

NONE of us are inspired as Apostle paul was, so have to understand it "as through a dark glass dimly" in some reagrds here...

believe we can state that our "particular" system way of understanding Gospel, Bible better than others ways to understand/inperprete word of God, but NOT exclusive/only way!

Good question that you posed here..

Do we all agree that both Cals/Arms teach/preach same jesus and Gospel, just disagree in specifics of Soltierlogy?

 

JesusFan...

Yes. Absolutely.

Although I am not sure Iconoclast would agree, unfortunetly.

 

So it does, but Lot didn't oppose it. He did not have to get drunk. Nor did he have to engage in sex willingly. To put it bluntly, in a court of law I do not believe a charge of rape by his daughters would hold up.

Secondly you have avoided completely Lot's horrid action of offering his two virgin daughters to be molested all night long by a mob of homosexuals. Was this the Godly thing to do? Or was it the carnal and backslidden thing to do?

 

Lot is our example to keep company with moral people.

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil companions corrupt good morals.


Lot chose to live in a godless society and suffered for it.

 

Yet Salvation is only for a preselect few. LOL scripture is even for those who can't understand it . You don't make a lot of sense.

Yet for those who might believe cannot be saved because they are not elect

how can you be so sure with out biblical proof? Did some spirit tell you this or was it it written in your doctrine

they were chosen to be a people of God.

Wrong election. Paul is the apostel to the Gentiles Peter only went to one Gentile we know of. What he wrote was addressed to the Jews.
The Jews were elect but not to Salvation

Not according to scripture.

You mean some of the elect died

they were chosen to be a people of God. They were not chosen to Salvation and neither was anyone else. If they were then you should be able to show that with scripture.

Wrong election. Paul is the apostel to the Gentiles Peter only went to one Gentile we know of. What he wrote was addressed to the Jews.

There are lot's of new men in Christ they come to Him everyday
MB

 

Doesn't the Bible really teach in this that we still ALL have our "old man" Flesh nature withus until either death/rapture/Second Coming of Christ, whichever to us happens first?

 

:applause::type:

 

Yes, he chose to live a carnal life.
The result of his choice was a backslidden life.
He did not lose his salvation though he was carnal and backslidden. God declared him a just man, a righteous man.
Yet he could not rewrite the history books that he had still offered his two virgin daughters to a mob of homosexuals. There is no more despicable act that could be recorded in the Bible that is done by a believer than that one. And yet some call it a "Godly act"?? No it was ungodly, carnal, backslidden? Are you really willing to say that he was Godly when he offered his daughters to be abused all night by homosexuals. Or was he backslidden living in carnality? Which is it? There is only one of those two choices available.

 

straw man and you know it. Nobody will believe and not be saved because they are not elect.

2 Thess 2:13 "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. "

 

seems that some of us here on BB just refuse to admit that its better to have our election based in, upon the Will and Plan of God than based upon ourselves making the "right decision!"