“The doctrine by which the church stands or falls.”

1. O, the sweet doctrine of justification. What more can I say?

2. Romans 3:20-5:21 did it for me.

3. Paul's argument for Abraham as the prototype of all those whou would be justified before God in Chapter 4, clinched it for me.

 

RB,

Let me first say that the doctrine or meaning of "justification" IS critical to our understanding of salvation. AND it is an understaining that ALL Christians should hold in common.

Yes, that is it succinctly. No need to add to it because OT justification was imputed differently than NT justification.

See, this makes no sense at all. We are justified for doing NOTHING with our belief in Christ's crucifixion on our behalf?? Is that what you see in Abraham?? He heard God but did nothing?? C'mon RB -- that's just verbose nonsense!

There is but one citation that mentions the word "justification" here, RB. When you start mixing scriptures that name it with those that don't, you are "treading on thin ice," my friend!

But I would have you take note of the words I underlined. They say that righteousness is not imputed until we believe. It does not say "until we have faith" (which is given us of God) but BELIEF which comes of our own consideration of and response to the word that is preached.

I've got to say after all these months of give and take that it seems you restrict your "gardening" of ideas to books on Calvinism rather than the Bible.

skypair

 

Abraham was counted righteous (or justified) apart from works. See Romans 4.

If Abraham had been justified by what he did, he'd have something to boast about.

Abraham received justification through faith.

If Abraham had been justified because of something he did (or because he worked for it), his justification would be his due, and not a gift.

Like all the rest of us, Abraham was justified by faith in the God who justifies the ungodly-- the God who justifies those who don't have a righteous record of their own. Abraham was justified apart from his works. What Abraham did played no part in his justification

 

But he BELIEVED and that was NOT counted as works -- so, yeah, Abraham was indeed accounted righteous apart from works of the flesh but not apart from works of the spirit! Got that?

skypair

 

Yes, I hope you read my response to Russell. We are justified on account of -- on condition of -- our "SPIRITUAL" work of BELIEF.

I was alluding to the ones you cited.

skypair

 

You should join the Puritan board.

Yes, justification is by faith. Absolutley.

Faith comes by Grace. Just Grace. No works what so ever. God gives to every person a measure of faith, some more than others. It is a saving faith non the least.

It is all just Grace. It is the Grace of God we should be concentrating on.

Faith comes by hearing about that Grace of God.

So lets preach the Gospel, we do not know who the Elect of God are. They are waiting to hear the Gospel as I did.

God is working let's not forget this. Reconciling the world to Himself.

 

Paul, over and over again, puts faith over against works. If something is by faith, then it cannot be on account of works. It is wrong to think of faith (or belief) as a work, even a "spiritual" work. True faith is receptive: It receives the righteousness of Christ, or "the righteousness from God."

In addition, scripture never tells us we are justified "on account of" our faith. It says we are justified "by faith" or "through faith" but never "on account of" faith. And when you say we are justified "on account of" our faith, you overlook the scripture that says that lawkeeping is indeed required for justification:

The grounds for anyone's justification has to be "doing the law." Yet, in another place in Romans, we are told that

And in Romans 4 it tells us we are justified as "ungodly" people "apart from works."

It's a conundrum, a riddle: The doers of the law will be justified, yet no one will be justified by the deeds of the law. And we are justified as ungodly people apart from our works.

The solution to the riddle is that it is not "on account of" our own works we are justified, but on account of the righteousness of Christ. Christ kept the law perfectly, and those united with Christ by faith have his perfect record of lawkeeping counted as their own in their justification in the same way that our sins were accounted to Christ on the cross in our forgiveness.

The imputation goes both ways: Christ becomes sin for us, and we become the righteousness of God in Christ.

In 1 Corinthians 1: 30-31, we learn this:

It is “by [God’s] doing we are in Christ Jesus, who became to us…righteousness;” and based on this truth, no one has grounds for boasting except in the Lord.

Since Paul says that this righteousness precludes our boasting about our own works and gives us reason to glory in Christ’s work instead, I’d understand this to mean that the righteousness Christ became for us must be a righteousness that is not inherent to us; but rather, an alien righteousness. If Christ becoming my righteousness rules out any boasting on my part, then it must be that God regards me as righteous in Christ apart from my own works of obedience, and based on Christ's works of obedience alone.

 

1. Good use of Scripture. I always love it, when interpreters get the doctrine of justification right.

2. What better place to go than Romans 4!

 

RB,
Part of the problem you will have and are having with some non-cals regarding the above, is the wording. Though it is not wrong it gives the wrong impression due to the way it is worded. I to was about to give a rebuttal to a small portion but in taking a second look at how it was structured I saw the meaning beyond it's wording. What I embolded above is where you will have the difficulty.

If it is not CAREFULLY read there will be a knee jerk reaction from some who will say "our justification is by faith!" when in fact you are already stating this. What you are NOT stating is that 'faith' is a righteousness of itself, therefore we are basically trading God something of ours that is of value for something of Gods that is of value. (a work). Which we know from scripture faith is not a work at all.
Faith is not that bywhich we can demand of God something that would be due us for our using, but is a trusting for that which we do NOT have nor deserve to be given simply by His grace.

And is further expounded in like manner in the rest of you posting below:

The doctrine of Justification is simply that our righteousness is due to Christ alone, secured in Christ alone, achieved by Christ alone, that our faith by grace is in God alone.
A-men!

 

I am curious here.

Are you saying that if one does not hold faith comes from God, then one must be a heritic?

Or

That one who thinks their faith is the object of their justification rather than Christ they are worthy of being called a heritic?

 

R55,

There is no contradiction:

Romans 2:13
for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers (poietes, G04163) of the Law will be justified.

Romans 3:20
because by the works (ergon, G02041) of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
​

poietes means "performer", to wit, "one who obeys or fulfills the Law". Such was the Messiah Yeshua.

ergon means "works, business". I understand this to be a reference to legalism and formalistic observance of the Letter of the Law, over against the Spirit of the Law.

With respect, your confusion is an artifact of English translation. If we could all read Greek fluently, no such confusion would arise.

 

Skypair,

This was posted...

And you said...

It makes complete sense. It is the most sensible thing in the world.

Exactly! We are justified in Gods sight because of Christs work on our behalf. His rightiousness is imputed to us. We access this through faith, and faith ALONE.

You are jumping the gun here. We are not talking about the result (or manifestation) of our justification, we are talking about how we are justified.

Its faith and faith alone.

Thats the gospel. To add ANYTHING else to it turns it into a FALSE gospel.

God bless,

Mike

 

A,

Romans 4:20
And at the promise of God, he did not separate away (diakrino, G01252) in the unbelief, but was strengthened (endynamothe, G01743) in the belief, giving glory to God.​

endynamothe (G01743) seems to be conjugated in the passive tense (?).

Thus being the case, Abraham was strengthened by God and thereby graciously empowered / enabled with belief.

Abraham's belief was not his own work, nor effort, nor even exertion of any kind in any degree.

It was "all God", by God's grace.

God said "let Abraham believe", and Abraham believed.

(It would seem)

 

Romans 4:22-24
Therefore, 'IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS' [Gen 15:6]. Now, not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.​

The English word "credited" (or "imputed") comes from the Greek word logisthe (G03049). It is the "middle voice" of logos (G03056), which means "word" — as in the "Word of God", and represents that organizing principle, of God, that crafts the Kosmos.

Thus, the Greek seems to be saying (crudely) that "it was logos'd to him as righteousness".

This seems, again, to indicate that it was God's will / word doing the acting, and that Abraham was a passive recipient.

However, this exceeds my command of Greek. This also does not seem to agree with the Genesis 15 account, unless the statements "And the Word of YHWH came to him" indicate YHWH-God's infusion of strengthening empowerment into Abraham, that then allowed / enabled Abraham to "believe" in Gen 15:6.