14 year old dating an 18 year old. Please read.

I have a brain with reasonable intelligence and understand the maturity level and morality of a CHILD is still DEVELOPING!

How do you know that? And what is your motivation for declaring they know “EXACTLY what they are consenting to” if so concerned about the “DECADENCE of our society” why would you justify this behavior from a CHILD?

Again, I have a brain with reasonable intelligence and understand that humans go through a process called “puberty” and this doesn’t justify a license for “open game” for the IDIOTS who claim “If they’re old enough to bleed they’re old enough to breed”

Wrong, at that age they are making immature morality decisions and it is the responsibility of Christian parents, and mature adults to help them determine “right form wrong” not to justify their actions as REASONABLE and having FULL knowledge of EACTLY what they’re consenting to.

This strawman cover up mentality doesn’t change the fact that most women that lost their virginity at an early age would readily admit in this area they were not mature enough to choose wisely and morally.

[QUOTE ]"Minor" is a label... unless you can point to some objective reason for believing that a person who is not mature at 17 years, 364 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes, 59 seconds all of a sudden becomes mature at the magical moment of midnight. Some may have the maturity to make choices at 15, others at 21, still others never show that maturity. [/QUOTE]

I’ll point to the objection that it is wrong PERIOD to make those wrong choices before marriage and with that I’ll gladly take any help from the LAW that is wishes to give to protect CHILDREN from adults just as the adult perpetrator to one of mine would very gladly appreciate ANY help from the LAW that would protect them from ME.

Same with my grandmother, but we’re not talking about natural blessings inside of a marriage here, we’re talking about immature children of today being feed, “everybody does it”, “try it before you buy it” morality compared to the value of, “He won’t buy the cow if he can get the milk for free.” of that day.

So what’s the solution? Adults MUST take the responsibility! Right?

And your Point?

Yeah, a lot of adult men taking advantage of “minor” girls who dress provocatively in their immature immorality.

 

I wasn't going to rejoin this conversation, but I just have to ask.

David, has your niece's grandmother undergone other seemingly drastic idea changes?

It sounds as if when she took custody of your niece that everyone was on the same page, idealogically. Has there been other disagreements of this magnitude or is this the first?

What I'm getting at is that people don't just suddenly change their basic ideas. If she has a drastic change of ideas combined with some general forgetfulness, there might be a health issue going instead of just liberal views.

Let me try to explain myself better by giving an example. My husband's grandfather has alheimer's disease. Before we had any idea that something of that magnitude was going on, we knew that he would forget things, like where he laid his keys or if he had paid his power bill. He was getting on up there in age (80') so we didn't pay much attention.

Well he had a girlfriend. Of course none of us liked her and we had good reason. But this was what he wanted and he was grown and could decide for himself(right?). So we kept our mouths shut and let him do what he wanted. Well somewhere along the line the girlfriend told him that he was taking to much medicine. And he believed her. He still believes her. It's been three years since she's been anywhere around and he still won't take anything but his blood pressure medicine. He doesn't remember my name(he's known me 20 years), but he still believes he is overmedicated. He only takes his blood pressure meds, because the doctor told him that dispite what the girlfriend said that he would die if he didn't.

Now, if you made it through my admittedly long post, please consider carefully whether something may be going on with the grandmother other than her just being an ungodly liberal.(of course she may just be) If you begin to get the idea that there is something going on, broach the subject gently with someone close to her(BUT NOT HER). Just a word maybe about how you noticed she forgot______ and is it happening a lot. Is she taking any new med? That kind of thing. If you go in to pushy I gaurentee that you will recieve more resistance than you ever got over you niece's issue.

If someone doesn't ask these questions though, you're liable to go in one day and find she been living with rats running through her house and moldy food everywhere and eating cold soup right out of the can.(this is what we discovered with T's grandfather. He was always out with the girlfriend when we could visit, so it took him getting really sick before we caught on) I realize this isn't probable since your niece lives with her(and aunt too?), but kids don't always notice things and may just think it's normal.

 

David J.

I did pray and I will continue to pray. That grandmother needs to get right with God. You can tell her I wrote that as well.

I thank God that you have remained a man of God and place God's difficult right over the easy wrong.

God bless

Wayne

 

The man is supposed to:

A. Ask the father if he can see his daughter before dating her.

B. Refrain from sex until marriage.

Mark Osgatharp

 

Are you talking about dating or having sex? If you're simply talking about dating, then I certainly take serious offense to your implications. If you're talking about having sex, then it is debatable about whether it should be a moral problem or a legal problem, which leads me to my next question:

Those of you who "will take whatever help from the law" you can get, would you still be so supportive if the federal government declared that the age of consent is 14 nationwide?

Hopefully, thinking about it in those terms will help you see that "dating" and "having sex" are not synonymous, even though you would think so from looking at the world. However, we should separate ourselves from the world.

 

So, I have been married to my wife for 17 years, and I'm scum now, simply because we started dating when she was 14 and I was 19?

 

Hope, kids today are much different than when you or I grew up (ten years before you). Kids are killing each other, killing parents, etc.

Kids are not maturing till later nowadays. Oh, some may think they are mature, but ask most police, they will tell you the majority of young men who get into trouble for murder are between 17 and 20. And many times it is because of a younger girl.

Again, much different than the 17 to 20 year olds 17 years ago.

 

I know what you mean by "maturity" but from what I see kids have to grow up so fast just to keep up with the pace.
In some ways I think kids have to become mature must faster today than they did then.

Again, we are using the word "mature" in diff. ways.

 

Some of us also seem to be confusing "dating" with "having sex".

 

my friend who is a few months older than I (16), is going out with 22 year olds and up.
she lies to her mom and goes and stays with these guys for days, sometimes weeks!
most of them have been investigated for molesting other girls and she was even going to go to Europe with one.
she doesn't listen to anyone, but her own ideas.

 

true tinytim. but in many ways, the maturity they grow into nowadays is not maturity at all.

I was at the doctor's office not long back and tow young men came in. they were quite obviously in late teens. Both wore their pants in such a manner that the crotch of the pants were to their knees (no joking) and they were constantly pulling them up. Now, I ask you, is that how a mature person should dress? If they were mature, I feel sorry for them, because they must have been wearing their older brothers clothes due to lack of money to buy a nice fitting pair of pants.

 

Does she even listen to you?
She is being very dangerous.
Sadly, I know some teens like that also.
As a teen, what can adults do to get through to them?

And StandingfirmforChrist, i agree with you, but I also know some good teens like lil d. that wants to do things right.

 

Does she even listen to you?
She is being very dangerous.
Sadly, I know some teens like that also.
As a teen, what can adults do to get through to them?

And StandingfirmforChrist, i agree with you, but I also know some good teens like lil d. that wants to do things right.

 

my friend doesn't listen to anyone. sadly shes been handed everyhting in life without having to work for it. shes always had what she wants, what she needs and more. i really don't understand her sometimes.
as a teen, i have to honestly say that nothing you can do will get through to us (teens). that is not all teens i am talking about, but generally the ones that need it.

 

No one says you're scum now...the maturity level between between 36 and 31 shouldn't be as great as the maturity level between 19 and 14.

Sorry..but IMHO, at 19 you must have been incredibly immature to be interested in a 14 yr old girl...and her parents must have incredibly irresponsible to even let her date at that age. If you had been 24 and her 19 when you started dating, then that would have been a completely different story.

But again, that just my opinion. Nothing scripturally to base it on, but at my house, none of my three daughters were allowed to date before 16.

 

Then use those gifts to realize that there is no magical translation from childhood to adulthood that occurs on the 16th, 18th, or 21st birth days. There are 16 year olds who are more mature than 21 year olds.

My 16 year old daughter is very immature. She is less mature than most 13 year olds I know concerning boys. My 12 year old son often exhibits more maturity than she does. That's the way she is... good, bad, or indifferent. We're thankful that she has no interest in boys but often frustrated by other aspects of her immaturity.

My point isn't that these girls should be engaging in sex but rather that the term "minor" is relative and arbitrary. It has no direct correspondance to the apparent objective of the law- to protect "children". To me a 15 year old is a child. To many 20 year olds, a 15 year old is a peer maturity wise.

How do you know that?</font>[/QUOTE][/quote]Because I have listened to them when they speak and observed their actions... and I used to be that age and knew several girls who dated guys much older. Even 20 years ago, some girls weren't innocent victims... they pursued these older men with purpose.

Because a) they are morally and legally responsible if they have the maturity and understanding to make a genuine choice and b) because I don't like seeing people punished for arbitrary rules.

The young guy I mentioned earlier has spent 7 years in prison because two girls plotted and seduced him. Neither girl was innocent or inexperienced. How they reached that level of depravity by 14 or 15 I don't know... but it does not seem right to punish the young guy when they deceived him.

I don't... any more than I justify it from an "ADULT". The question is what constitutes an "adult". An arbitrary age? A level of knowledge, experience, or maturity?

There was a time when girls married as teens as a rule. Some as early as 13 or 14. Most 16 to 18... and fewer after 20. Most married established men who were older. Were these girls "minors"- too immature to make their own decisions?

Well, what were the results? Crime, divorce, and adultery were all less than now. Marriages were commitments that lasted.

After 60-80 years of feminism, even Christians assume that a "minor" that gets married or enters a serious relationship is "ruining" her life.

The problem isn't the age difference. Relationships between older men and teenage girls are very common historically. I have read that if Joseph and Mary were common for their time and culture, she was probably in her mid-teens and he in his late 20's or early 30's.

Sex should not occur outside of marriage. But a romance what many states consider a legal "minor" and legal "adult" is not necessarily wrong. In fact, the common paradigm that a girl should not marry until she is in her twenties, "an adult", graduated college, experienced, or other things contributes to promiscuity. The same feminism that convinced society that girls were oppressed if they were married and committed to a lifelong relationship before 20 also convinced most that the girl shouldn't be responsible as the "gate keeper" but rather should explore and experience her sexuality.

Most girls are beyond puberty well before 18.

Those are idiots. Not only are these young girls worthy of protection, men should see it as their responsibility to protect the honor and virtue of women. It wasn't that long ago that this was the norm. Women who slept around were whores and men who treated women shamefully or kept company with such women were considered classless and low brow.

Now women are expected to sleep around and men are heroic for promiscuity. That has little to do with age differences and everything to do with widespread decadance. It is ridiculous and hypocritical to throw a 19 year old in jail for having sex with a 15 year old while exalting the relationship between 40 year old men and women 18-21.

Parents are responsible for the children God gives them. The children are also responsible for their own moral decisions. I knew right from wrong regarding sex at 14... didn't you?

I agree that those attitudes toward sex are wrong... as are the modern attitudes about commitment and marriage. But by your own testimony, that is independent of any age difference. Would you agree or disagree that a loving, non-physical romance between a mature 15 year old and a 21 year old is moral while a sexual relationship between two 21 year olds is immoral?