14 year old dating an 18 year old. Please read.

[David J]

I have a niece that just turned 14. She is currently living with her grandparents. Her mother abandoned her when she was 2 and her father left her a couple of years later. Her mother has 2 other children by 2 different men and her father has 2 children by different women. Her family influence is not what you would call moral. Her father is the grandmother’s son. To make a long story shorter she was adopted by her father’s parents. To make matters worse she has chronic crones on top of everything else.

I found out that she started dating an 18 year old man from her churches youth group. First of all by SC law this is illegal and I find it immoral for a man to date a 14 year old child. Keep in mind that the grandmother claims to be a good Christian. Christmas day this questionable young man was at her house when my family went over for a family Christmas dinner. First of all he is not family and secondly he is not what I would let my child hang around. He is redneck to the core. I confronted the grandmother and aunt about this after he left and I got attacked. I was told that age does not matter. I was told I was being a judge and I had no right to judge people. I told them that with age comes wisdom and I view this like a road with many forks. On this road we must view down that forks paths and try to see what lies ahead in order to make the best judgment in life. I said what I’m doing in not judging but it is call foresight. I told them in the old world it was a noble thing to speak truth and try to warn someone you love about a bad path. I said that today people like you want to sugar coat problems and hide behind the excuse that only God can judge. I warned them about how my niece’s mother was in school and how dating an older man in Junior High gave her a bad reputation. I told her that my niece is on that same path and it’s a shame that a professioning Christian would willingly allow this to happen considering that your son has 2 children out of wedlock and her mother has 2 children out of wedlock. Everyone got mad at me for speaking the truth. I was asked what I thought and when I replied they all got angry.

There is no way that I would let my 14 year old daughter date an 18 year old pervert. What does an 18 year old see in a 14 year old outside of easy sex?

I told them that my niece is very immature and she could easily be influenced. I warned them about her health and how she is getting a bad reputation. All this fell on liberal ears.

I was told that age does not matter. I replied then just let her date a 40 year old man. I said that at 14 age does matter because a 14 year old is still developing. I told them that when my niece is 14 it is different than her being 18. There is a big difference between 14 and 18. Then I was told he was immature. I replied, ”well then that really makes me fell better! An immature 18 year old redneck who is out of school working part time! Gee that makes it A O.K”. I said this further proves my point about him and wanting a toy to fondle and possible have sex with. I told them that a good moral Christian 18 year old would not date a 14 year old child. They got angry.

But as an uncle what can I do? It sickens me to see them hide behind the church while turning their granddaughter out. I’m not a hateful man but I am a moral man who believes in morality. It hurts me to see this and what is worse is they tried to put my blessings upon it. This young man must know that my blessings are not in this.

I’m really stumped here. For the life of me I can not understand how a parent or in this case a grandparent allows this to happen. They know that this young man wants to have sex with my niece and they blind-eye it. They attacked me for speaking Godly truths. What can I do outside of pray?

I’m asking each of you who read this to make a special prayer for protection and wisdom for my niece. I ask that you pray that God smites that family with conviction about this immoral act. Please make a special request at your church and if you have a prayer list put it down as a special unspoken. My heart is broken because I have helped raised this young lady since she was 1 ½. I have seen what she has been through and I wish a million times over I had adopted her because if I did rest assured she would not be dating. I fear the path she is taking and its being hidden behind the Christian faith.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Personally, I don't care what her grandparents think. They are immoral infidels who obviously don't care about the well being of the girl. If this is illegal in your state, and you really want to do something about it, I would call the police and inform them and DHS about what is going on with the 18 year old pedophile and the grandparents who are allowing it to happen. Just be sure that you don't make any accusations that you cannot substantially back up with evidence.

Your family will be mad at you. The niece will probably be mad at you. But, at least you will be able to live with yourself knowing you did everything you could do to protect this child.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Helen]

David, you have done what you can do. It is really, really hard, I know. I have a nephew who converted to Mormonism and married a Mormon girl and his mother, my sister (United Methodist) sees nothing wrong with it. Criminy, the girl is not even a good Mormon as they don't want children! Go figure...

We refused to attend the wedding, which made us the bad guys right off.

All we have been able to do is be friendly, and be available. Like you, we tried to warn those involved at the beginning and it fell on deaf ears. We are the intolerant fundamentalists...

Pray for them. You are very, very right about a girl her age in no way being ready to date, let alone an 18 year old guy. There is a GIANT age difference there at that age. God bless you for trying.

edit: read your post again. You helped raise her. She loves and trusts you, I would think. Talk to her quietly and offer your love and guidance again. Tell her the MINUTE he starts to pressure her that she is welcome to call you and you will come get her no matter where she is or how far away or anything. Let her know you are there for her. I think she will listen. The thing a teenage girl wants most in this world is affirmation by an adult male. That just might be you now. God bless you.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

When my brother was 18 he was dating a 14 year old.

My cousin was 20 dating a 15 year old.

Neither my brother, nor my cousin had sex or tried to have sex with these girls.

My g-grandfather was 24 when he married my g-grandmother, 2 days after she turned 15.

All I know of this situation is what you have stated, but it seems to me that you are jumping to conclusions that you can not substantiate. You do not know that this young fellow only has aspirations for your niece in order to have sex with her. You say they are in the same youth group at church. That tells me that he is probably not like "all the rest" of those age boys. I know I wasn't like most 18 year olds.

Dating someone at that age is not a crime. Having sex with them is. You can not report a crime where one has not been committed.

Until you know with certainty that an actual crime is taking place, then you should let them know how you feel, in a loving way, and then butt out. You have to remember that no matter how you feel about the situation, you are not her parent, and you are not her legal guardian. You can not cast this girl in the same mold as her parents. You can not say, "well, her parents slept around, so she will too". Life doesn't always work like we think it will.

There may actually be a connection between these two young people, and they may even get married someday.

I don't see much wrong with it, so long as the young man's intentions are honorable, and they are not sleeping around.

I would hate to be the cause of someone's losing their one true love, if that's what this is.

BTW, I don't see anywhere in scripture where age is applied to morality. Your definition of morality, in this case saying it is immoral for a 14 and 18 year old to date, does not coincide with the bible, nor does it coincide with what was deemed appropraite by society before about 40 years ago. This would neither have been uncommon nor looked down upon before about 1970.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Oh, David, my heart goes out to you and I want to say that I definitely agree with Helen.

If you really had a share in raising her, then you need to talk to her yourself...in privacy and away from the ignorant influences of the people that she lives with.

Don't "preach" to her. She will never listen.

Let her know the following.

</font>

• Let her know that first and most of all that you love her.</font>
• Let her know that you genuinely are concerned about her and while she may not see anything wrong, that YOU are an adult and can see more to the situation than she can.</font>
• Let her know that not all young men who are interested in 14-year-old girls are interested in what is best for them and it doesn't make the 18-year-young men "bad" people.</font>
• Tell her that even though it may be embarrassing for her and even for you that she can come to you at ANY time, anyplace and talk to you about sex, this particular boy, growing up without parents, "neediness" in young girls, and literally anything she needs to talk about. Apparently no one else is talking to her.</font>
• Tell her that because you love her so that YOU are going to come to her and talk about these things sometimes even if she does not initiate the conversations.</font>
• Tell her, bluntly and firmly, that while it quite NORMAL for young girls to be attracted to older boys and that young men who are 18 can often be "attracted" to girls her age, that it is NOT acceptable for them to be in a relationship....and for many reasons....NOT just sex (or potential sex).</font>
• Tell her that the giddiness and thrill of having and "older" boy attracted to her is a normal feeling, but acting upon that feeling will lead only to heartache.</font>

There's is a lot more that the two of you should talk about and it has nothing to do with this particular boy. It has most of all to do with the way that she feels about herself and where she finds her self-worth.

Unfortunately, it may be too late to alter her self-perception and her perception of how adults live.

But it isn't too late to help her understand that being 14 and dating an 18-year-old is not going to boost her self-esteem at all not lead her into having a positive experience as a teenager.

One more thing...everytime that you think of your family and get fighting mad at them....pray for them.

Your family's plight is ever-so common. When I was 14, I was attracted to older boys and unfortunately, my mother and father let me "run around" with them. They thought that since I was not officially "dating" them that there could be no harm done. Fortunately for me, most of those older boys were either too shy or too clumsy to have caused too much trouble.

But you tell your family this for me and I mean this. A 14-year-old girl will do anything that a boy asks her to do. Anything. Tell them for me that even the most innocent of 14-year-old girls do not have the maturity to understand even the most basic of relationship foundations.

Spiritual maturity, personal maturity, and the concept of "keep your hands off of me, I am worth too much for someone like you"...those concepts just are NOT there yet in a 14-year-old girl.

Good luck and God bless your family.

Peace-
Scarlett O.
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[gb93433]

Most 18 year olds are immature and so are most 14 year olds. But there are many who are older than 50 who still need to grow up.

If one looks at the culture during the time of the NT it wouldn't be long and that girl would be married to a much older man. Some writers believe it was a man who was in his late 20s or early 30s.

Everyone needs to help and suport of family members. When I was much younger I grew up in a home which we called "hell on earth." So for me it was vital that I meet some families who lived the Christians life. As I dated young ladies I often met their parents. I learned a lot from those parents. For the first time in my life I saw Christinanty in action. The parents of one lady I dated took me places, treated me great and taught me many things and I became good friends with their son. For the first time I saw a man treat his wife as a lady should be treated.

Christian families have a lot to offer others if they will just look past the veneer of what may seem rough.

 

[faithgirl46]

Originally posted by Scarlett O.:
Oh, David, my heart goes out to you and I want to say that I definitely agree with Helen.

If you really had a share in raising her, then you need to talk to her yourself...in privacy and away from the ignorant influences of the people that she lives with.

Don't "preach" to her. She will never listen.

Let her know the following.

</font>

• Let her know that first and most of all that you love her.</font>
• Let her know that you genuinely are concerned about her and while she may not see anything wrong, that YOU are an adult and can see more to the situation than she can.</font>
• Let her know that not all young men who are interested in 14-year-old girls are interested in what is best for them and it doesn't make the 18-year-young men "bad" people.</font>
• Tell her that even though it may be embarrassing for her and even for you that she can come to you at ANY time, anyplace and talk to you about sex, this particular boy, growing up without parents, "neediness" in young girls, and literally anything she needs to talk about. Apparently no one else is talking to her.</font>
• Tell her that because you love her so that YOU are going to come to her and talk about these things sometimes even if she does not initiate the conversations.</font>
• Tell her, bluntly and firmly, that while it quite NORMAL for young girls to be attracted to older boys and that young men who are 18 can often be "attracted" to girls her age, that it is NOT acceptable for them to be in a relationship....and for many reasons....NOT just sex (or potential sex).</font>
• Tell her that the giddiness and thrill of having and "older" boy attracted to her is a normal feeling, but acting upon that feeling will lead only to heartache.</font>

There's is a lot more that the two of you should talk about and it has nothing to do with this particular boy. It has most of all to do with the way that she feels about herself and where she finds her self-worth.

Unfortunately, it may be too late to alter her self-perception and her perception of how adults live.

But it isn't too late to help her understand that being 14 and dating an 18-year-old is not going to boost her self-esteem at all not lead her into having a positive experience as a teenager.

One more thing...everytime that you think of your family and get fighting mad at them....pray for them.

Your family's plight is ever-so common. When I was 14, I was attracted to older boys and unfortunately, my mother and father let me "run around" with them. They thought that since I was not officially "dating" them that there could be no harm done. Fortunately for me, most of those older boys were either too shy or too clumsy to have caused too much trouble.

But you tell your family this for me and I mean this. A 14-year-old girl will do anything that a boy asks her to do. Anything. Tell them for me that even the most innocent of 14-year-old girls do not have the maturity to understand even the most basic of relationship foundations.

Spiritual maturity, personal maturity, and the concept of "keep your hands off of me, I am worth too much for someone like you"...those concepts just are NOT there yet in a 14-year-old girl.

Good luck and God bless your family.

Peace-
Scarlett O.
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Scarlett O.]

Originally posted by gb93433:
If one looks at the culture during the time of the NT it wouldn't be long and that girl would be married to a much older man. Some writers believe it was a man who was in his late 20s or early 30s.

You are definitely right about that and thank the Lord that we do not live in the culture of the NT anymore.

The NT as well as the OT is the inspired Holy Scripture, perfect in nature.

The culture of the NT and OT were obviously not perfect.

Women in the culture of the Bible had but one function...one place where they had worth to world and that was in bearing children for their husbands' families.

That's it.

They had to get married early to get a head start on having those babies.

Can you imagine a man whether it be in the OT/NT or in 2006 who is somewhere between 25-45 and married to a 14-year-old girl?

What would their personal relationship consist of other than sex?

What would they talk about that was interesting to them both? I can't think of a thing.

What dreams and personal life goals would they share that were common to them both? It just wouldn't happen.

Yes, women in the earlier days married young. And many times they married men old enough to be their fathers.

Were they happy? Some were. Very happy. Were they content? Possibly. But unfortunately that's all that they knew. That's all that they were ever allowed to know.

14-year-old girls of today are not like the 14-year-old girls of yesteryear. The 14-year-olds of the past were bred for that lifestyle. Yes, I said it. Bred for it.

And whether that was good or bad it not for debate. It's in the past. That's just the way it was.

Today's girls have more to look forward to in their lives and yes, while husbands and children are a big part of that, there is more to the lives of women today than having babies.

And because a young 14-year-old girl today can grow up in a great woman with plans ordained by God for her own life, then she can find a wonderful man more close to her own age with Godly plans for his own life and they can build an intensely personal wedded life WITH each other.

Similar interests. Similar life goals. Similar views of life. Similar lives period.

It would just seem to me that those two people, more close in age, would be happier.

Peace-
Scarlett O.
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[nate]

I have to agree with Bro. Reed. I'm 17 almost 18 and saw a couple of movies with a girl that had just turned 15 this past summer! We had fun. I wasn't out to use her. We had fun just hanging out. We were careful not to put ourselves in any situation where rumors could get started. If they do the same you never know they may end up married one day.

 

[El_Guero]

David,

Have a talk with the pastor.

Tell grandma and aunt to get a life.

Have a talk with the young man and lay down the LAW.

If he cannot wait 3 - 4 years to date her on her, then he needs to move on. If he cares about her, then he can be a MAN and take a CHANCE and wait 3 - 4 years for her to grow up. If he cannot lead as a MAN, then he is the wrong man for her.

 

[El_Guero]

Yes, I said it. Bred for it.

Yes you did . . . that was sad.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Bro. Nate,

many of these folks would call you a pedophile and have you locked up for what you did.

I just don't get it.

Maybe I'm just too young to know better, or maybe I'm just not so disgusted with society that I see every person, young people in particular, as monsters who are out to have as much sex as they can.

I wonder how many of these folks wouldn't be here if mommy and daddy, or grandma and grandpa, had been prevented from dating because they were too far apart in age.

I know that I wouldn't be here and it saddens me that most here would consider my great grandfather a pedophile, worthy of prison, and in some cases execution, just because he loved my g-grandmother when she was young. They married in 1920, he at age 24 and she at barely 15, and were happily married for 42 years until his death in 1962. Their marriage produced 16 children, my grandfather being the 2nd.

I agree that in many cases, if not most, a 14 year old girl today is not mature enough to handle such a situation properly, but that does not negate the fact that many at that age certainly are mature, and many even more so than older "girls" in their 20's, 30's, and 40's.

I work with several women who act like teenagers. Should they be discouraged, and even threatened, for dating a mature man?

You all talk about 14 and 18 like it is a 20 year age difference. Would you be so set against this if it was a 21 year old dating a 17 year old? Or a 22 year old dating an 18 year old? What if it was only a 3 year difference?

Should a set number of years, months, or days in age difference matter?

I would be more apt to agree if this were a topic regarding whether a 14 yr. old should be allowed to date at all, no matter the person, but this is all about some arbitrary number which really was relegated by the government and has nothing whatever to do with real life.

You can not put all of these situations in one box and expect them all to fit. Life just doesn't work that way.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Wheww hoo! No wonder they got mad at you if you were as arrogant in person as you sound in your post!

That old saying that you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar is true!

Now you say that you are this child's uncle but you don't speak of either her father or mother as being YOUR sibling. If you are an inlaw, you just broke a cardinal rule. Inlaws are not allowed to be authoritative and demand anything from "the family"! You'd have gotten run off out the door if you'd talked to me the way you sounded in your post. I wouldn't have even bothered arguing with you.

Now as for the topic, I be much more concerned that my 14 year old was even dating, than who she was dating.(My oldest is 13) Dating is not allowed in my house until 16. (There isn't even an arguement about this, this rule has been spelled out since she was old enough to ask questions about man and woman)

Now we must define dating. Dating in this house means boy and girl with no chaperone. Properly chaperoned youth group activities, visits in MY home and activities where either myself or my husband or certain other individuals who I know will uphold my wishes are present, are not considered dating. Any young man who can't abide by my rules isn't even allowed to call her on the telephone(caller ID is worth the money). I already have a reputation as being the mother you don't want to mess with at my daughter's school. Instead of thinking that I'm terribly overbearing and strict, my daughter thinks(correctly) that this is all for her protection.

I would never accuse my daughter of sexual activity just because she likes a boy older than herself. If there were such(the oldest yet has been 16) he would be subject to the same rules as any other boy. My rules are set up to allow them as much freedom as possible to talk, watch movies, go to the mall(properly chaperoned of course and that doesn't mean I sit in the middle of the mall and wait), play video games and whatever else kids do to keep themselves busy, while at the same time precluding enough privacy for sexual activity.(hard to have sex if mama is watching) My daughter has a very clear understanding of why we have these rules, what God has to say about sexual activity, what sexual activity really is, and just what can happen if she disregards the rules.

It is simply not enough to rant and rave that this young man is not good enough for your niece, to say look what happened to her parents and to say she is ruining her reputation. It is very insulting to her and those who are directly raising her to call her immature, to take her health concerns out of context and to imply that all she could be to this young man is a sex toy(as though she isn't good/smart enough to be anything else). Not to mention that this isn't showing Christlike love to this socalled "redneck pedophile". He may simply be a public school educated young man from an underprivledge background.

You'll never know cause it seems you've already burned your bridges with him. Have you even talked to him? Or were you so incensed that he was invited to a "family" event as your niece's "date", that you formed you opinion without ever finding out anything about him?(this one is my pick because your biggest complaint is that he is 18, and you haven't shown just why you think he's a redneck)

If you are really concerned about your niece then you need to make the time to get involved in her life and know what is going on. When she brings home a young man, get to know him! Don't simply assume he is out for sex. A good many young men are, but it is not fair to assume EVERY young man she likes is. On top of that, give your niece some credit, given sufficient love and encouragement she will be capable of making these decisions. But if you simply assume you know what's best for her life and she is to young, immature, misguided or whatever to learn to make these decisions and try making these them for her, you will end up alienating her and then she will completely disregard your opinions out of hand. Now is when she SHOULD be learning to deal with the opposite sex and it is impossible to protect her from every bad thing that comes along. Instead teaching her to deal with things in a way that is honoring to God will stay with her a lot longer (take this from someone who had a mother as arrogant and controling as your OP make you seem)

One more comment and this lecture is over(if you've even made it this far): BEING A REDNECK IS NOT A SIN! NOR DOES IT CONSTRUE MORE SIN IN ONES LIFE THAN ANY OTHER CULTURAL GROUP!

I come from a long line of so called "rednecks". We were no more sinful than my Yankee relatives on the other side of my family.(redneck mother, yankee father) There was plenty of sin to go around for all. So just because this kid speaks in less than cultured tones and hangs a rebel flag in the back of his pickup along with his deer rifle, it DOES NOT mean he only sees your niece as a sex toy! You should be ashamed for even thinking so without more proof than you have presented here.

 

[bruren777]

DavidJ,
I just prayed for you Bro, may the Lords will be done.

 

[Ben W]

Considering that both her parents have abandoned the girl in question, I think it is really great that she is going to church and the youth group. Praise the Lord that she has turned to God rather than the world. Imagine what it would feel like to be abandoned by your own parents.

 

[David J]

To most who have replied I truly thank you.

I stand for something and I WILL WARN those I love about mistakes they are about to make. if one is willing to stand by and let a loved one make a mistake with a 18 years old redneck who does not work fulltime and has no ambition of furthering his education. I am an uncle who loves his niece one who held her as a very sick child when both her parents adondoned her, one who has raised her only to make the mistake of not adopting her because I thought these people were godly, one who spends time with her, one who is there for her, and ONE WHO HAS talked to her about this only to have a liberal grandmother tell her that I am wrong. Don’t you lecture with your pathetic thoughtless liberal theology.
Scarlott O thank for putting things into perspective and I appreciate everyone who is sincere in helping me with this problem. It’s a shame that more people do not care for children like we do.

One thing today these liberals who claim that a 14 year old dating an 18 is ok deny that today sex is every where. In the past sex was not as popular as it is today. I’m 35 and as a teenager sex was not as bad as it is today. You can not deny these facts. This fact is that sex is promoted and encouraged by the music, media, etc… So yes kids are more active with all sorts of sex today then many years ago. All one has to do is turn on the TV, pick up a magazine, look at the public schools, etc.. to see how sex is more open today.

People today want to exist in the grey areas. They hate “black” and “white” or “right” and ‘wrong”.

"Before one can identify anything as "gray", one has to know what is black and what is white. In the field of morality, this means that one must first identify what is good and what is evil. And when a man has ascertained that one alternative is good and the other evil, he has no justification for choosing a mixture. " Ayn Rand

Ayn Rand was on to something....

[edited for personal attacks0

[ December 27, 2005, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[menageriekeeper]

Like I said, you have an arrogant attitude. I won't waste my time.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Oh yes, and I'm a woman!

 

[David J]

One thing that I want to add is that I said these things in private away from my niece and after he was gone. This was between the grandmother, the aunt, and myself. I re read my 1st post and I want to clarify that fact.

 

[David J]

Once again all thx for your prayers!