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Featured 1st Century Ms discovered? Wallace says so!

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Greektim, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    I'm not excited b/c I think it will confirm any textual variants, although I think it has the chance to do so (I'm not a critical text guy any more than a Byzantine guy). I'm more excited about the prospect of what it could mean for synoptic studies and the dating of Mark.

    And let's be honest, Christians fared just fine without a 1st century Mss in our arsenal of arguments. P52 was good enough for many. This is just another arrow in an already overflowing quiver, except this one might either have a poisoned tip making it more deadly or perchance a slight bow making it fly untrue so as to come back to pick us in the head.
     
    #21 Greektim, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2012
  2. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    I'm certainly not KJVO. But for your information, didn't you know that most of the early NT papyri were found in trash dumps in Egypt. Here's an article that will bring you up to date:

    AnneMarie Luijendijk, ‘Sacred Scriptures as Trash: Biblical Papyri from Oxyrhynchus’, Vigiliae Christianae 64 (2010), 217-254.

    And I was just having a little fun with my cynical "humor." Sorry! I'm delighted for every NT manuscript that God has preserved!
     
  3. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    Maurice Robinson beat you pointing this out to me ;)

    However, the concept of the trash heap is a bit different in the mind of a KJVO. For them, those Mss should be thrown out b/c in their opinion it is not the pure word of God. Little bit different than what Luijendijk argues.
     
  4. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    Although Dr. Robinson maintains a minority viewpoint, I think he is the Mac-Daddy of NT textual criticism! As I chose him (with his agreement, obviously) to be my major professor for my Th.M./thesis, I generally concur with his assessment of things. What I hope he will complete is his magnum opus on the Pericope adulterae!
     
  5. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    Good catch! I wrote that lying in bed at 1:00 in the morning after burping our two-week old baby and putting him back down. Anyway, it was a joke, and to make it proper I should have said proto-Mark or something.
     
  6. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    wasn't Q JUST though a fictional document thought up by Source document critics who could not understand that the reason the Gospels could be alike so much was that the HS was behind each of them?

    Didn't Luke do his own exhaustive historical studies to gather "proof" for the facts presented in the Gospel without regards/need for good ole Q?
     
  7. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    Yes, and that's why many don't believe in Q and some, like Eta Linnemann, deny that there even is a Synoptic Problem. I like Dr. Linnemann, BTW. Got to meet her at an ETS meeting one year, along with Jakob van Bruggen, another evangelical I admire.
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Now that's one book I'd buy in a heartbeat!

    By the by, you had Greektim going there. :laugh: No offense, Tim! :wavey:
     
  9. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    Gettin' a little worked up... I admit. Turns out, Jon and I may have seen each other on campus. I certainly concur that MAR is a "Mac-Daddy of NT textual criticism."

    What was/is your thesis on? When did/are you graduating? I'm doin' my ThM w/ Dr. Black. I have to admit, it was these two individuals that help me gain a much higher view of the Byzantine text-type than I had previously. I'm not a prioritist as my siggie indicates. I like to keep it simple... Sturzian style.
     
  10. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    Dude... I googled you! I remember MAR talking about you in class. I think he liked your thesis a lot. Care to state the results of your research. I thought it was very interesting and tedious. How did you manage it? Anyways, did you offer anything to help argue for the PA inclusion???

    Jonathan C. Borland, “The Old Latin Tradition of John 7:53-8:11.” Th. M. Thesis,
    Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Wake Forest, NC, 2009.
     
  11. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    I can respect Sturz as his view is rooted in the basic concepts of the most prodigious collator of Greek NT manuscripts ever, Hermann Freiherr von Soden. And that he was a disciple of Colwell doesn't hurt his case, either.

    I was on campus from 1998-2001, then for the 2008-09 academic year. I wrote on the Old Latin tradition of John 7:53-8:11. I think google books has it, but it's a pretty boring read unless you're really into that kind of thing.
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Alas, I'm just an old missionary with a brilliant son. Paul is ABD on his PhD in NT under Dr. Black. His dissertation title (about half done) is: "The Meaning and Function of kata prognwsin in 1 Peter 1:2--A Study in Lexical Semantics and Social Scientific Criticism."
    I've really enjoyed getting to know both men through our son. They are godly men of scholarship and wisdom.

    Boy did old Sturz stirr things up. I really enjoyed his book.
     
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I put it on my wish list and may be able to pick it up someday. I still read Latin some from high school (knock on wood).
     
  14. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    Just curious...

    Are either/both of you Ph.D in your studies yet?

    And what was your major emphasis in your studies?
     
  15. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    Don't. Please let me email you a copy!
     
  16. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    I have a wife and four kids can't really pursue the Ph.D. degree currently. Now if the yuan would reach parity with the dollar . . . .
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Great! I'll look forward to it. I'll PM my email address to you.
     
  18. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    No... I'm on a missionary extension near the end of my ThM. I am a NT studies major (if that as what you call it).

    I am looking at PhD options when I finish. There is much to weigh.
     
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