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2 Peter 2:1 Cannot be referring to a saved believer

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Oct 18, 2021.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

    Agorazo (to buy; redeem, acquire, by a ransom or price paid) is used 30 times in the New Testament. It can be used to refer to being bought in the sense of redemption (1 Cor. 6:20; 1 Cor. 7:23; Rev. 5:9; 14:3, 4). However, in the other 25 uses in the NASB it is translated in a secular sense meaning to purchase an item such as a field (Matt. 13:44), a pearl (Matt. 13:46), or food (Luke 9:13), (cf. Matt. 21:12; 25:9; Mark 15:46; Luke 22:36; John 6:5 Rev. 13:17, etc.). The overwhelming number of uses in the New Testament are non-redemptive in scope.

    In addition, in conjunction with each redemptive use 'above' (1 Cor. 6:20; 1 Cor. 7:23; Rev. 5:9; 14:3, 4) a descriptor - "price" or "blood" - is used. 2 Peter 2:1 does not use such a descriptor! Dr. Gary Long in Definite Atonement states:

    ...of its thirty occurrences in the New Testament, agorazo is never used in a salvation context (unless 2 Peter 2:1 is the exception) without the technical term "price" (times - a technical term for the blood of Christ) or its equivalent being stated or made explicit in the context (cf. I Cor. 6:20; 7:23; Rev. 5:9; 14:3, 4).

    While this is significant, the use of the term "Master" or "Lord" is as well.

    Peter intentionally alludes to Deuteronomy 32:6 when he refers to the false teachers as "denying the Master who bought them." Deuteronomy 32:6 states:

    Do you thus repay the Lord, you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?

    (note that Peter also alludes to Deut. 32:5 in 2 Pet. 2:13 making this connection even clearer).

    The use of "Lord" (Master) as the one who "created," "made," and "established" is significant. As seen from its context, this word emphasizes God (or Christ) as sovereign ruler over the earth and the one who creates and establishes all things. This connection also seems to be consistent with the fact that Peter refers to the one denied as "Lord" (Greek: despotes meaning Lord, or Master), not "kurios" (Greek: Lord) as we might expect if spiritual redemption by the blood of Christ were in view.

    Thus, the term is referring to God (Christ) who owns all people in general, but not that he has redeemed all people. At issue then is not election, regeneration, calling, perseverance, etc., but sovereign God who is owner of all. Peter is not addressing the extent of the atonement, but is providing an illustration (cf. Deut. 32:5-6) of a sovereign Master (despotes, not kurios) who had purchased slaves and hence commanded their allegiance. Grudem says it like this:

    'Is not he your Father who has bought you?'... Peter is drawing an analogy between the past false prophets who arose among the Jews and those who will be false teachers within the churches to which he writes... From the time of the exodus onward, any Jewish person would have considered himself or herself one who was 'bought' by God in the exodus and therefore a person of God's own possession... So the text means not that Christ had redeemed these false prophets, but simply that they were rebellious Jewish people (or church attenders in the same position as rebellious Jews) who were rightly owned by God because they had been bought out of the land of Egypt (or their forefathers had), but they were ungrateful to him.

    Jesus, the Shepherd of the sheep, will lose no genuine sheep (John 10), but there are also wolves among the sheep (Matt. 7:15; Acts 20:29). By false teaching and practicing immorality (2 Pet. 2:2, 10, 13-15, 18-19), these false teachers continue to treat with disdain, scorn, and contempt the lordship of Christ and thus belied their own spurious profession of faith (1 John 2:3-6, 19). They are condemned goats, not sheep (Matt 25:31-46).

    Calvinism and 2 Peter 2:1?
     
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another thread saying scripture does not mean what it says when it conflicts with the false doctrine of Calvinism.

    Does anyone say 2 Peter 2:1 means God redeemed those heading of swift destruction? Nope so the entire OP is a strawman argument.

    No Calvinist can even grasp the magnitude of their ignorance of 2 Peter 2:1. In the OP the implied but never stated view is Christ did not die for those heading for swift destruction. The only meanings of the word bought are (1) redeemed or (2) simply an allusion metaphor - like a slave denying his earthly master. However the verse does not say those heading for swift destruction were behaving like a slave denying his master. They had been actually bought.

    What did Christ buy when He laid down His life as a ransom for all humanity? The right to redeem anyone of His choosing. Thus Christ bought those to be redeemed and those never to be redeemed such as those heading for swift destruction.

    This concept is never addressed as it is outside the false claims of Calvinism

    In the bogus Calvinist false doctrine first God chose unconditionally those who He would save before creation, then saves them with "irresistible grace." But the actual doctrine of scripture is God chose His Redeemer before creation and therefore chose corporately those His Redeemer would redeem. Then during the physical lifetime of individuals, God's general and special revelation "draws" (attracts) individuals. Some put their faith, as worthless as a filthy rag, in Christ. If God credits their faith as righteousness, then God puts those individuals into Christ, which is their redemption.

    Two completely different views. But anytime the actual doctrine is cited, a bunch of Calvinists will say, this verse or that verse does not actually mean what it says, nullifying the very word of God. Those heading for swift destruction were bought! Christ died as a ransom for all. God desires all people to be saved. Before God chose individuals to be His chosen people, they existed as "not a people" precluding individual election before creation. God would not have needed to harden the hearts of non-believing Jews (Romans 11) if "total spiritual inability" was true. I could go on and on citing passage after passage and all the Calvinists would do is post taint so, seek to change the subject, and insinuate I hold to one heresy after another...
     
    #2 Van, Oct 19, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    2 Peter 2:1, "also [like the false teachers of old] denying the master who bought them". This verse does not refute limited atonement but shows the similarities of the false teachers to those of old who "denied the Lord who bought them" from the house of bondage in Egypt.

    Examples of "bought" in an unsaved sense.

    “Fear and dread will fall on them; by the greatness of your arm they will be as still as stone until your people pass by, O LORD, until the people whom you have bought pass by.” (Exodus 15:16)

    “Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; The rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; This mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.” (Psalm 74:2)

    “Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? Is not he thy father that hath bought thee? Hath he not made thee, and established thee?” (Deuteronomy 32:6)
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    peter no doubt here had in mind Judas, as john also stated, was with us but not of us!
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You have the words of God, yet you claim Christ had not bought those heading for swift destruction.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None Jesus died for shall be lost!
     
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Utterly false and a claim 2 Peter 2:1 is wrong when God says "even denying their Master who bought them." Those heading for swift destruction are lost. Jesus will not lose any of those given to Him.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Van, peter stated that those doing that were false teachers and false prophets, how can they be saved at all?
     
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Y1 knows they are heading for swift destruction, yet asks the question to insinuate my view was otherwise. Vicious and vindictive vilification is all these folks have...
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is a point not one Calvinist can grasp, bought but not given... Jesus is the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, but only those given to Christ receive the reconciliation provided by His sacrifice.
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So God bought everyone with the price of his holy blood, but he throws billions into the fiery trash heap after spilling his blood for them. Do I have your assertion correct, Van?
     
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Not my assertion, but what scripture explicitly says. Aren't you the person who claimed 2 Peter 2:1 does not say "even denying the Master who bought them?" Did you not rewrite the verse to say "even behaving like slaves denying the Master who bought them?" Give me a break...

    Here is a point not one Calvinist can grasp, bought but not given... Jesus is the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, but only those given to Christ receive the reconciliation provided by His sacrifice.
     
    #12 Van, Oct 20, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So God bought everyone with the price of his holy blood, but he throws billions into the fiery trash heap after spilling his blood for them because he didn't give them to himself after he bought them. Do I now have your assertion correct, Van?

    In essence, Jesus bought the whole shipment of apples and then tosses out the bad apples while keeping the good apples. Is that more accurate, Van?

    Van,
     
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  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    so Jesus sacrifice wasn't enough?
     
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  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    and where do you find that in scripture?
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why not address the actual passage. Were those heading for swift destruction bought? That is what God's word says, and apparently what Calvinism denies.
     
    #17 Van, Oct 20, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    So Jesus sacrifice was enough!
     
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    read 1 Timothy 4:10 for starters!
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am surprised you claim not to be familiar with 2 Peter 2:1 which says the Master bought those heading for swift destruction, whereas John 6:37 says those given to Christ will not be cast out.

    Here is a point not one Calvinist can grasp, bought but not given... Jesus is the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, but only those given to Christ receive the reconciliation provided by His sacrifice.
     
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