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Featured 2 Peter

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    1Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
    To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these qualities is blind orshort-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
     
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  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    As I read this, it is talking about a child of God and their discipleship, what is the question?... You are adding to what you already believe... Brother Glen:)
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    2 Peter 1:1 NASB
    Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
    To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours,
    by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

    When considering the study of a verse, one activity after reading the passage to establish the immediate context, is to consider the meaning of the words used.

    First, we see that Simon is spelled in some versions Simeon, and is the given name of Peter. Peter is the name given by Jesus to His apostle, Simeon.

    Bond-servant best translates the word also rendered "servant" or "slave." The important idea conveyed by "bond-servant" is the person who agrees to put themselves under the authority of another. Thus someone who accepts the gospel wills to be put under the authority of Christ.

    Apostle refers to a person chosen to represent another, thus Peter is an apostle of Christ.

    Jesus is the accepted name of our Lord, although
    "Yeshua was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ ("Yehoshua" – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus."

    Christ (Messiah) refers to the Anointed One chosen by God to be the Savior of all who believe.

    "Received a faith" Here we have one of those ambiguous phrases that are interpreted to mean whatever the presumptive doctrine of the interpreter requires. The word rendered "received" is frequently rendered "obtained" with the idea whatever was obtained was obtained by chance (such as casting lots) or through an action of another. Faith as used here refers to our salvation, with a saved Gentile being equal to a saved Jew.

    And we obtained this "faith" through the righteousness of our God and our Savior Jesus Christ. This verse presents the truth of the deity of Christ boldly and unequivocally.
     
  4. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Generally, they mean what they say.
    Amen.
    Ambiguous?
    Not in the least, Van.

    In the Greek, the word is, "λαγχάνω" ( transliterated into English as, " lagchanō " and means "chancing-on" or more literally, " to obtain by divine allotment " ).
    Here we see that it, again, means exactly what it says.
    Received a faith.

    In baseball, the pitcher pitches and the catcher catches.
    Unless the pitcher pitches, the catcher cannot receive the ball.

    It looks straight-forward to me.;)
    The word, "received" means "received".
    In other translations, like the KJV, it is rendered, "have obtained".
    Agreed.
    Amen.
    Jesus Christ authored and finished it ( Hebrews 12:2 ), as a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ) and as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ( Hebrews 11:1 ).
    It is the very same faith that was delivered to the saints ( Jude 1:3 ) and is specifically stated to be the faith "of God's elect" ( Titus 1:1 ).


    Through His righteousness and mercy, we believers have obtained it, as a gift, from Him.:)
     
    #4 Dave Gilbert, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    It appears Dave completely agrees with me.
    Here is my favorite quote: Through His righteousness and mercy, we believers have obtained it, as a gift, from Him

    This quote implies we were "believers" before we obtained salvation. Not the actual position of Calvinism. Their bogus doctrine is we obtain salvation by grace through the God given and instilled by irresistible grace faith in Christ. They deny that if God credits our worthless faith as righteousness, He saves us.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    "Divine" is in the context of "to obtain by allotment." "To obtain by allotmen" being a more literal meaning of λαγχάνω, lagchanoh.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks 37818, yes the word has a range of meanings, from "obtain" to "obtain by lot" to "obtain by divine allotment." To say one meaning is more literal than another is twaddle.

    It was said that "received a faith" is not ambiguous, as if "obtained a salvation" was not more clear.

    In Luke 1:9 the chore of burning incense was "obtained by lot."
    In John 19:24 parts of Christ's raiment were "obtained by lot."
    In Acts of the Apostles 1:17, Judas's role as betrayer was "obtained by divine allotment."
    In 2 Peter 1:1 they "obtained" an equal salvation.
     
    #7 Van, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  8. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    To me, to obtain by allotment is because of the divine.;)

    The context being, that unless the Divine does the allotting, then no one obtains it.:)
     
  9. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Apparently.
    But not on everything, Van.

    To me, you keep resisting the doctrine that God's gifts are gifts, not rewards.

    We as His children receive ( obtain ) them not because we strive to obtain them, but because we are His chosen children and He then places them into our hands.
    We obtain eternal life and true, enduring faith passively, not actively.
    I don't see anywhere in God's word where a person is a believer before they actually believe.
    I do, however, see where a person is saved before they are made aware of that salvation, through the Gospel.
    They then believe, because they are of Christ's sheep.
    See John 10:26 and John 8:43-47.
    What exactly is the position of those who believe everything that John Calvin wrote and taught?
    Those would be the "Reformed" ( Reformed Churches in America ) and Presbyterians, wouldn't they?

    For example, I don't agree with infant baptism, the persecution of heretics and a-millennialsim, to name a few.
    As far as I know, they teach the same thing that the Bible teaches about salvation ( "soteriology" ), at least in many places.

    That God's grace is given to whomsoever He pleases ( Romans 9:14-18 ), and He saves whom He wills.
     
    #9 Dave Gilbert, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    1Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
    To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

    No difference in the Apostles' faith and the Gentile believers' faith it is the "same kind", and it is "BY the righteousness of our Gad and Savior, Jesus Christ." It is NOT by some conjuring of human hope.

    2Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

    He "CALLED US by HIS own Glory and excellence." HE granted "HIS precious and magnificent promises." It was not as a result of some crediting of human faith as some would distort.

    It is BY those promises that believers become the "partakers of the divine nature" and not the result of some crediting of human faith as some would distort.

    10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
    Believers do not of their own volition in conjuring up some human faith be credited as righteousness.

    HIS calling, HIS choosing is the entrance to "the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    Not some conjuring of human faith in which God credits as righteousness as some would distort.
     
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  11. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    The Bible teaches that God's grace and mercy is the starting point ( Titus 3:5-6, Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:14-18 ).

    Faith is a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ), but it is not given to all men ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ).
    It is the faith of God's elect ( Titus 1:1 ) and was delivered to the saints ( Jude 1:3 ).

    Not all men have faith, or are given it.
    It is a gift that accompanies the gift of eternal life, which Jesus Christ gives only to those who are ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ) and were given to Him by His Father ( John 6:64-65, John 17:2 ).

    That is precisely why most who profess Christ will fall away during trials and tribulations, and not make their calling and election sure.
    Because they were never called by the power of the Holy Spirit, but were instead sown in the field of Christ's wheat by His enemy.

    They are, in reality, still in their sins and have not believed on Christ from the heart, but only with the mind.
    Their "faith" was not given to them, and they evidence that fact by having a false faith that fails when tested.
    By divine allotment.;)
     
  12. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Please NOTE:

    The word "kind" in the passage "those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours" does not mean that of equal quantity, nor equal quality, but that of the equal rights and privileges, the from the same authority.

    That REMOVES the faith from being human conjuring as some would distort, to that of the divinely endowed as a gift.
     
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed a meaning of a word can be broader or different than a root meaning a word may have came from. Please explain how the concept of divine comes out of λαγχάνω?
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I have no idea, other than that is one of the meanings asserted by the lexicons.

    Here is the NET bible footnote:
    6tn The verb λαγχάνω (lancanw) means “obtain by lot,” “receive.” A literal translation would put it in the active, but some of the richness of the term would thereby be lost. It is used in collocation with κλῆρος (klhros, “lot”) frequently enough in the LXX to suggest the connotation of reception of a gift, or in the least reception of something that one does not deserve. H. Hanse’s statement (TDNT 4:1) that “Even where there is no casting of lots, the attainment is not by one’s own effort or as a result of one’s own exertions, but is like ripe fruit falling into one’s lap” is apt for this passage. The author’s opening line is a reminder that our position in Christ is not due to merit, but grace.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Dave, you should know I am not a Calvinist, thus I see it as you are asserting obviously false doctrine.

    I have told you we are saved by grace through or on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

    No one said a person is a believer before they believe. Why post such a fabrication?

    Once again, a person "of My Sheep" is open to God's word. Please do not defend your views by redefining the meaning of words a phrases.

    It is off topic and an effort to change the subject to discuss the difference between Reformed and Presbyterian. Calvinism refers to the five points of the TULIP, of which four are bogus.

    The issue is God wills to give grace to those whose faith He credits as righteousness.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again the obvious false assertion that Ephesians 2:8 indicates our faith is instilled by irresistible grace is twaddle. The gift in view is our salvation thus we obtain the gift on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

    Did anyone say all people are given faith? Nope, so deflection.
    2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we were chosen for salvation through or on the basis of faith in the truth.
    Acts 13:48 supports my view, not yours.
    John 6:37 says those given to Christ are saved forever.
    You have no idea whether a professing believer is a tare or wheat, but we are admonished to present the full requirements of the gospel to the church and not give up on possible tares.

    The concept of total spiritual inability says all the lost hate God all the time and would not put their flawed faith in Christ. But then you turn around and say even though they hate God all the time, they put their flawed faith in Christ. Cognitive dissonance anyone?
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again I see the outright denial that God credits the believers faith as righteousness. They have no answer for Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-24.
     
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    You make human faith righteous enough to warrant God crediting it.

    this is in denial of “...there is none righteous...”

    God does not credit human faith, but that given to the human in which the human then states as their, our, my, ...

    Peter understood.
     
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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I did not write or inspire Romans chapter 4.
    Scripture, properly understood all fits together. For example, there are none of the lost who are righteous, but those born anew are "made righteous." There, there is none righteous means there is none who are righteous at all times.
    Scripture says God does credit human faith, therefore your assertion is unbiblical and wrong.

    The issue is God wills to give grace to those whose faith He credits as righteousness.
     
  20. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    If it is "twaddle" as you say, then please break this down and tell me what it says in your own words, Van:

    " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
    9 not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
    ( Ephesians 2:8-10 )
    Believers obtain the gift by...
    Crediting the believer's faith as righteousness.

    How, exactly, does one obtain a gift, Van, other than to receive it?
    Are you telling me that believers have to do something to receive a gift?

    The Bible does not teach works salvation, Van.
    Not at all.
    But, if you think it is deflection, tell me...how does one get "saving faith"?
    Not true.
    Scripture tells us this:

    " Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." ( 2 Timothy 3:5 ).
    So, if it were impossible to tell wheat from tares, why would the Lord tell us to turn away from those who have a form of godliness, but deny the power of it?

    However, I agree with you not to give up on possible tares.
    Sometimes what we might think are tares, are "wheat" that God is growing.;)
     
    #20 Dave Gilbert, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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