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#2: Why so much against KJB-only?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ed Edwards, Feb 26, 2004.

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  1. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    God didn't give us the "right" to become the sons of God, he gave us the POWER to become the sons of God.
     
    #41 Precepts, Mar 2, 2004
  2. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    "The KJV has worked since 1611"
    Luther's Bible has worked since 1522, why aren't you learning German?
     
    #42 mioque, Mar 2, 2004
  3. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    "power" in the source where the KJV;kjb comes is, "exousia" which carries the idea of right or authority. Also, the word "sons" is better trans "children" (IMHO); the word is "tekna" not "huios" which means "a son" (Vines) Let's not "force" the English of 1611 upon the Bible. ;)
     
    #43 Orvie, Mar 2, 2004
  4. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    Ah Miogue, what logic! [​IMG]
     
    #44 Orvie, Mar 2, 2004
  5. Rock

    Rock New Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Momma always said "It is not funny unless everyone is laughing." I am sorry Momma, I can't help it.
     
    #45 Rock, Mar 2, 2004
  6. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    "power" in the source where the KJV;kjb comes is, "exousia" which carries the idea of right or authority. Also, the word "sons" is better trans "children" (IMHO); the word is "tekna" not "huios" which means "a son" (Vines) Let's not "force" the English of 1611 upon the Bible. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]God never relinquished His "power" to men that they may claim thier "right" to become the "sons" of God. Your understanding of the Greek maligns the Hebrew initially given to us in Genesis 5 where "ben" is certainly `understood to be "son" as well as "child". Your introduction of Greek is pretty silly in this case, but "power" belongs to God, not man. Man "demands" his "right", God ONLY gives him "power" to become, not power to choose to become. Then I believe you have allowed the exposure of the mv advoctaes error again, man's decision vs God's decision. Then is the motivation behind the mv's exposed as well, man vs God, when we who hold to the KJB know God is for man, and man created for His good pleasure, not as the mv ultimatim would conclude,as if God being made is for the pleasure of men.

    You'll always be wrong until you prove God RIGHT!

    This "power" is in Him alone, He is Sovereign, His Word IS Holy.
     
    #46 Precepts, Mar 2, 2004
  7. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

    rsr,

    you quoted:
    --------------------------------------------------
    And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    No Pastor, nor christian who KNOWS and LOVES the Lord Jesus Christ could use this version of this passage. I will give you the KJV reading and you can compare it on your own to determine why this is:

    John 1:14

    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    You can argue about your justification for your version leaving this out, until you turn blue in the face, and sear your conscience to the truth, but I will not respond any further than this. I have shown it, and it is riduculous to argue about it, and I will not be part of that any more. You can come to your own conclusion based upon what is given as fact. You can talk all you want about the greek texts and languages, but it is quite evident to all who have eyes to see, and ears to hear what the Spirit of God is saying.


    love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #47 michelle, Mar 2, 2004
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle-

    BY WHOSE AUTHORITY....?
     
    #48 robycop3, Mar 2, 2004
  9. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    Precepts-"God never relinquished His "power" to men that they may claim thier "right" to become the "sons" of God."
    Orvie-"You missed my point.The word in the inspired language (Greek, not English) is carries the idea of right or authority..may I add, as a king's son's right. We, (Precepts and Orvie) as son's of the King, have the royal right to be God's child! Doesn't that fact give you some spirtual goosebumps?"
    P-"Your understanding of the Greek maligns the Hebrew initially given to us in Genesis 5 where "ben" is certainly `understood to be "son" as well as "child"."
    O-"I'm not sure why you brought that up as it doesn't relate specifically to the verse at hand."
    P-"Your introduction of Greek is pretty silly in this case,"
    O- "It's sad that you disagree with Vine, A.T.Robertson, as I simply looked up these words from these experts, instead of looking it up from biased KJVO's:kjbo's."
    P-"but "power" belongs to God, not man."
    O-"And your point?"
    P-"Man "demands" his "right", God ONLY gives him "power" to become, not power to choose to become."
    O-"You're failing to understand what is meant by, "right" This right or authority comes strictly from God, if, since we trust Him...as a king's son, not as a spoiled child"
    P-"Then I believe you have allowed the exposure of the mv advoctaes error again, man's decision vs God's decision."
    O-"That's a false dichotomy. You're forcing the English over the language God chose to inspire His NT, and it ain't the English of the KJV:kjb."
    P-"Then is the motivation behind the mv's exposed as well, man vs God,"
    O-"Then the motivation behind the KJVO's:kjbo's exposed as well, man vs God"
    P- "when we who hold to the KJB know God is for man,"
    O-"then you should come to terms with the MV's as the KJV:kjb once was"
    P-"and man created for His good pleasure, not as the mv ultimatim would conclude,as if God being made is for the pleasure of men."
    O-"That is just plain silly."
    P-"You'll always be wrong until you prove God RIGHT!"
    O-"Why are you calling yourself God? :D I know you are using circular reasoning:God wrote the KJV;kjb, therefore it must be God's only Word, therefore it is written by God, etc"
    P-"This "power" is in Him alone, He is Sovereign, His Word IS Holy."
    O-"God GAVE us (if you wanna use the word, empowered ) the right or authority to us be His child. Why you seem to think I'm taking away God's power is beyond logic. All the right and authority are from Him and Him alone." [​IMG]
     
    #49 Orvie, Mar 2, 2004
  10. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Thank you for the nice words. Actually, if you really want to know, I'm probably one of the three people who didn't get selected for jury duty. hehe

    Actually, they swore-in about 500 people at one time. I wonder if they found enough KJBs in this town or if they had to use a few NIVs. :D

    Now there is a question for you KJVO fans: If I get sworn in by the judge with an NIV, do I have to tell the truth? :confused:

    Seriously, I did go by the court-house to pick up some papers from the court-clerk's office and ran smack into ole' Terry and his dream-team. I got stared down by a few Federal boys with BIG guns, but I guess I looked harmless because they didn't pay much attention to me. It was funny because there had to be six-hundred news hounds outside just waiting for a shot of him getting into his car and here I am just getting a piece of paper and they almost run over me.

    I have no idea if that guy is guilty or not, but it is sure hard to put a face to the carnage I saw in OKC the day after it happened. I am honestly glad I do not have to sit on that jury.

    Have a great week, I'm going to go read my NASV for a while. [​IMG]
     
    #50 Phillip, Mar 2, 2004
  11. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Michelle, maybe I do not understand your point. If it portrays the same message then, well---I think I know what you are saying. I have no problems with the KJV, in fact, I always like to refer to it, but which version of the KJV do you use? I have a 1611 copy that was printed in 1612 (yes, really) and I just flat can't read it--and not because the words are faded--because it is written in a different language than I speak. When did the KJV become accurate--before or after we threw out the apocrypha?

    I just don't understand why people say that if a word or sentence that is in the KJV is left out of an MV--why does that mean that it was in the original Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic? :confused:
     
    #51 Phillip, Mar 2, 2004
  12. cdg

    cdg New Member

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    Mioque,

    I did not and do not say that to read the Bible one must have a KJV. I am saying to read the Bible in English one should have the KJV. Not saying those before it were not valid, only that the KJV completed it. I could learn German and read Luther's Bible, but I am not asking Germans to learn English and read the KJV.
     
    #52 cdg, Mar 2, 2004
  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Well, try this:

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it.

    A man came, sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that everyone might believe through him. He himself was not the light, but he came to testify about the light. The true light, who gives light to everyone,19 was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was created by him, but the world did not recognize him. He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him. But to all who have received him — those who believe in his name — he has given the right to become God’s children —children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.

    Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory — the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father."
     
    #53 rsr, Mar 3, 2004
  14. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    No thanks rsr, I left comic book theology a long time ago:

    "fully" God? That's ridiculous!

    "light of mankind"? Jesus is the Light of the World/ the light of men.

    "the light shines on"? Is there a light switch somewhere?

    "but the darkness has not mastered it"? I cannot comprehend the use of the term "mastered" in the context.

    I stopped there to prevent any more confusion being cast forth at me thru the screen
     
    #54 Precepts, Mar 3, 2004
  15. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Aw, come on. I want to hear about the "one and only."

    Give this one a try:

    "At the beginning God expressed himself. That personal expression, that word, was with God, and was God, and he existed with God from the beginning. All creation took place through him, and none took place without him. In him appeared life and this life was the light of mankind. The light still shines in the darkness and the darkness has never put it out.

    A man called John was sent by God as a witness to the light, so that any man who heard his testimony might believe in the light. This man was not himself the light: he was sent simply as a personal witness to that light.

    That was the true light which shines upon every man as he comes into the world. He came into the world - the world he had created - and the world failed to recognise him. He came into his own creation, and his own people would not accept him. Yet wherever men did accept him he gave them the power to become sons of God. These were the men who truly believed in him, and their birth depended not on the course of nature nor on any impulse or plan of man, but on God.

    So the word of God became a human being and lived among us. We saw his splendour (the splendour as of a father's only son), full of grace and truth."
     
    #55 rsr, Mar 3, 2004
  16. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Or this:

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

    There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
    He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
     
    #56 rsr, Mar 3, 2004
  17. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    "In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and he was God. He was in the beginning with God. He created everything there is. Nothing exists that he didn't make. Life itself was in him, and this life gives light to everyone. The light shines through the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it.

    God sent John the Baptist to tell everyone about the light so that everyone might believe because of his testimony. John himself was not the light; he was only a witness to the light. The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was going to come into the world.

    But although the world was made through him, the world didn't recognize him when he came. Even in his own land and among his own people, he was not accepted. But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. They are reborn! This is not a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan--this rebirth comes from God.

    So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father."
     
    #57 rsr, Mar 3, 2004
  18. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    "In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ( Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
    He was present originally with God.
    All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.
    In Him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men.
    And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].
    There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
    This man came to witness, that he might testify of the Light, that all men might believe in it [adhere to it, trust it, and rely upon it] through him.
    He was not the Light himself, but came that he might bear witness regarding the Light.
    There it was--the true Light [was then] coming into the world [the genuine, perfect, steadfast Light] that illumines every person.(3)
    He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him].
    He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own--His domain, creation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him.
    But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name--(
    Who owe their birth neither to bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!]
    And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth."
     
    #58 rsr, Mar 3, 2004
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    CDG:I did not and do not say that to read the Bible one must have a KJV. I am saying to read the Bible in English one should have the KJV.

    Why? Why not another version(s) or alother versions along with the KJV?


    Not saying those before it were not valid, only that the KJV completed it.

    What was INcomplete? Are you saying God hadn't preserved/provided His word before 1611?


    I could learn German and read Luther's Bible, but I am not asking Germans to learn English and read the KJV.

    Why ask many English speakers to learn Elizabethan English and read the KJV?
     
    #59 robycop3, Mar 3, 2004
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Amen, Brother Rsr -- Thank you for sharing
    your Bible message with us.

    There is another poster who is trying to
    be funny maybe, but showing his obstinace.
    I'll just shun him.

    May all God's best blessings full and
    rich be unto Brother Rsr this very day. Amen!

    [​IMG]
     
    #60 Ed Edwards, Mar 3, 2004
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