2ed of 2 Thess. 2:1-4, the Rapture

Why would the people of 2 Thess be worried about having missed the "END OF THE WORLD" if the "Day of Christ" is the same day as the
"Day of the Lord"???

They were expecting the "rapture" before the "end of the world", that's why they believed they might have "missed it".

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Th 2:7 only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed,

Quite obviously, two revealing of the same man won't work unless one is "Physical" and one "Spiritual".

If the AC is going to come to power right "AFTER" the rapture, (AND THEN) he'll have to be "physically present" on the earth "BEFORE" the rapture,

"and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Paul is saying the "Man of sin" will be on the earth at the time of the rapture, but not recognized/revealed until after the Rapture.

And that makes the rapture, Pre trib, and explains why the Thess had believed they might have missed it, no one can/will miss the "end of the world". (Day of the Lord)

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The "BODY" is the temple of God, especially the "BODY OF CHRIST". (Jesus)

And the "falling away" is the "quenching of the Spirit" that makes the body the temple, and when that "SPIRIT" leaves, the spirit of the AC moves in.

1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Actually, the AC sitting in the temple occurs "Spiritually" in the Falling away, before it does "literally", the rebuild temple in Jerusalem.

We see this today, "EVERYWHERE", false doctrines are rampant in every denomination, and all because people "quench the spirit" to the point it can't teach them the "TRUTH".


1Jo 2:27 But the "anointing" (HG) which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

I heard this on the radio the other day.

And I have to agree.

We do live in the "Age of Grace", we only "Spiritually crucify the old man", or "Body of flesh".

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,

But I wonder how many would still chose to be saved if it meant a literal death to be saved??

Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Just how many would show up for church on Sunday morning under these conditions????

 

The NT saints of 1Thess 4 were in distress because they had friends who unfortunately died before the 2nd coming so they thought these friends were out of luck. They thought the return of Christ was right around the corner and they did not understand how the resurrection of the righteous (the one John calls the FIRST resurrection) plays into the 2nd coming - the appearing again of Christ.

In 2Thess 2 they suffer from another problem. (Illustrated in 1Tim 4 and 2Thess 2:1-2)

Paul corrects this error by showing that the Day of the Lord is when the resurrection takes place. - the Return of Christ as He said "I will come again".

This is the summary argument showing the error of those who thought the resurrection had happenned. It debunks that error "in a nutshell" so to speak.

Then Paul goes into "more detail". He backs up starting with the present time (His present day)and walks the reader through to the future --

The cure for their error had already been given by Paul - according to vs 5 above.

He points to the present existence of that evil lawless one and takes them through to the future when that lawless one is "revealed" when Christ exposes him at the "appearing" - the "Appearance of His coming"

That completes the sweep of history showing the revelation of not only the wicked one but also the appearing of Christ that follows. He shows that this wickedness continues “until he is taken out of the way” by the appearing of Christ – which as they saw in 1Thess 4 is the moment also of the resurrection of the saints. Because 1Thess 4 has already been give to them all Paul needs to do is point them to the time of Christ’s appearing to solve the problem they are having with the timing of the resurrection.

Then Paul clarifies with more detail about that lawless one.

No part of this mentions the work of the AntiChrist or man of sin AFTER the appearing of Christ. No activity at all is attributed to the man of sin after Christ appears and puts a stop to it.

Paul points out this important list of events that must preceed the appearing and the resurrection that is associated with it (see 1Thess 4 for the appearing of Christ and the associated resurrection. Truth already given to the church of the Thessalonians)

In Christ,

Bob

 

You keep repeating what you wish you had read in 2Thess 2.

Lets go back to what it actually says again.

2 Thess 2 says that our being gathered to Christ will not happen until after the antichrist the man of sin and lawlessness is seen to do his work.

The point of "our gathering together to him" (Which in includes the resurrection of the saints as we see in 1Thess 4) is the question and the answer is given in a way that shows the antichrist - the lawless one being revealed at the appearing of Christ - at which time Christ puts an end to that lawless one.

That "Appearing" identified in 2Thess 2 is all that is mentioned as "the correct view" for when "we are gathered together to Christ".

And obviously it is all that is needed because the readers of 2Thess 2 have already had the benefit of 1Thess 4 telling them that when Christ "comes again" (his promised coming from John 14) He resurrects the saints of God.

The fact that "our gathering together to him" is the stated subject that Paul is addressing as the opening issue - but the focus is on the appearing of Christ - the "Day of the Lord" as Paul calls it - proves that it is at the "appearance" - of Christ that we are "gathered together to Christ"

5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

Paul is quick to point out that those who argue that "our gathering together to Christ" occurs at "the Day of the Lord"

 

No wickedness proceeds past this focal point of 2Thess 2! – God judges “ALL” – according to the text.

 

The focus of 2Thess 2 is "Our gathering together to Him"

Which as we already saw in 1Thess 4 happens at "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ".

Paul corrects the error being foisted onto the church regarding "our gathering together to Him" in 2Thess 2. In so doing he is also correcting the view on the event at which we are gathered together to Christ -- the "Day of the Lord".

Paul shows that the Day of the Lord is when we are gathered to Christ. - this is the Return of Christ as He promised saying "I will come again" John 14:1-3.

2 Thess 2 says that our being gathered to Christ will not happen until after the antichrist the man of sin and lawlessness is seen to do his work

When Paul says "IT WILL NOT COME" unless the apostasy comes first AND the man of lawlessness is revealed" he is quick to insert "so let no one in anyway deceive you".

The deception they were offered is that our gathering together to Christ at the 1Thess 4 focal point for the church - could happen BEFORE the events Paul says must happen FIRST.

Are any still deceived on that same point today?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Me4Him and many, many others have been making the same mistakes for many centuries.

KJV has for 2 Thess. 2:2:

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

The text used by KJ translators erroneously has christos (day of Christ) instead of kyrios(day of the Lord) as in the NIV and others.

That day is said to be "at hand" in the KJV and has "already come" in the NIV. "At hand" or "already come" in the Greek is enistemi - to place in or among, present or to be in the midst of that day. The day of Christ being instantaneous can not have believers placed in or in the midst of a period of time such as the Tribulation. If that day had "already come" before the Day of Christ, we would be in the midst of the Tribulation and not out of here before it. Paul tells the Thessalonians not to be shaken in mind or troubled if someone claims that day is presently under way and we are in the midst of it. The day of Christ happens in a millisecond while the day of the Lord covers a period of time starting with the Tribulation.

.

Blame the KJV again for the doctrine of the Church being Christ's bride. If Jesus is the bridegroom and the Church the bride, we can not have a personnel relationship with him or participate in the new covenant.

The world will never end. When Jesus returns to the earth, this present age will end.

 

Remember...the greek for "falling away" or apostasy also has the meaning of "removal of Christianity". Put this phrase in place of falling away or apostasy, as the early Church did, at the meaning is entirely different and supports a pre trib rapture 100%.
Also, if the "One who restrains" is taken out of the way...and we believers are left to witness the antichrist, how will there be a "falling away" with the world sitll inhabited by believers? This would not make any sense.

 

This is a high honor. I don't know what to say...

I would like to take a moment to thank all of those who made this possible.

Thank you to the webmaster, systems administraors, DBAs, network specialists, routers, domain name servers, CISCO, EMC2, BB board monitors, Catholics, evolutionists, Calvinists, and of course all my Arminian buddies out there in cyberspace. (A cast of thousands) I am sure I am forgetting a few dozen people here

Seriously - I have enjoyed this Christian message board more than any of the many others I have sampled over the years. It is a great place to exchange views. I have created literally 100's of doctrinal files and chapter commentaries, etc and have met a lot of very nice engaging Christians here.

In Christ,

Bob

 

quote:
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When Paul says "IT WILL NOT COME" unless the apostasy comes first AND the man of lawlessness is revealed" he is quick to insert "so let no one in anyway deceive you".
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#1. I have not found any of the respect Bible translations doing that...

#2. We have no record that the early church did this (Unless you have a 1st 2nd or 3rd century document on this point that I have not heard of...)

In Christ,

Bob

 

Notice it says "The coming of our Lord" in vs 1 as the time of our "gathering together to Him".

In John 14 we have THE promise from Christ Himself "I will come again". That is THE focus of the NT church.

In 1Thess 4 we see THE focus of the church (the coming of Christ) is also the time of the rapture of the "dead in Christ" and our "Gathering together to HIm" as Paul says in 1Thess 4 "Thus shall we ever be WITH the Lord".

So our gathering together to Him "is at the rapture".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Both 1Thess 4 and 2Thess 2 speak of "the coming of the Lord" and both speak of our gathering "together with them to meet the Lord" -- Gathering together to the Lord.

Paul is simply continuing to define, refine and clarify that singular event for the NT charch as it is their entire focus. "Therefore comfort one another with these words".

In Christ,

Bob

 

The Day of Christ is the rapture as noted in I Thessalonians 4:16&17. The Day of Christ is the victorious day of the church; the first resurrection [I Corinthians 15].

The Day of the Lord begins with the Second Coming of Christ in Revelation 19:11-21 and including the burning of the world with fire as referenced in II Peter 3:10.

 

Amen brother Ray - Preach it!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Plus you have a few thousand posts from me

I have studied with a number of other groups including attending Southern Baptist Sunday School, Baptist Training and Sunday services regularly. (In fact I actually taught a Sunday School class on "what is an SDA" when they were doing a survey of other Christian faiths).

I have studied long term with Mormons, JWs (a few times, once for over a year) and I have attended Catholic "instruction" with a friend of mine to ask questions about multiple popes in power at the same time. (there wer 11 at one time according to the Catholic Encyclopedia the priest had)

So it is always nice to meet someone who also shops around a bit and is open to other ideas.

In Christ,

Bob