40%?

[Van]

In commenting about the UAW strike against auto makers, a concern was mentioned about a 40% reduction in the number of autoworkers if the USA transitions to BEV's.

Now we definitely know where some of the anti-BEV propaganda is coming from. On one hand, we are told BEV's are two expensive for ordinary people to buy. But BEV's cost about $10,000 more than similar fossil fueled vehicles.

Question, why do BEV's cost more with far fewer parts and subsystems and labor. Lets say a BEV battery costs about $165 per KW-h and they need 90 KW-hs of battery to needed range, 300 miles plus. That works out to about $15,000 for the battery. And since the actual much simpler vehicle should cost say 25% less, then the cost differential should be less than $5,000. Easily recovered in a few years of operating cost savings.

In summary, a nice fossil fuel car should be about $40,000 and a nice BEV should be about $45,000.

 

[KenH]

Maybe in Democratic-controlled states, such as California and New York, EVs may get to be popular. I don't see such happening here in the Republican south. At least not for a VERY long time.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Maybe in Democratic-controlled states, such as California and New York, EVs may get to be popular. I don't see such happening here in the Republican south. At least not for a VERY long time.

What’s the cost to install a charging station into the home?

 

[KenH]

What’s the cost to install a charging station into the home?

"Most American homeowners will spend around $1,150 to $2,750 to purchase and install a 240-volt charging station. A good home charger costs $350 to $750 or so, while the typical installation runs between $800 and $2,000 according to Qmerit, a nationwide specialist in installing EV charging equipment."

https://www.motortrend.com/features/home-ev-charging-installation-guide

 

[Van]

Many newer homes already have a 240V outlet for an electric clothes dryer. When I had my AC unit installed, they upgraded my breaker box to accommodate the 240 circuit to the AC unit. So if I had a 240V outlet put in my garage, the cost would be about $400.

Next, many BEV come with a 240V on board charging system and charging plug and cord.

So all these high costs do not reflect reality for modern home owners. And if the dryer outlet is in the garage, then only the needed extension cord (perhaps $100 for a 25 ft cord) would be needed.

 

[KenH]

Many newer homes already have a 240V outlet for an electric clothes dryer. When I had my AC unit installed, they upgraded my breaker box to accommodate the 240 circuit to the AC unit. So if I had a 240V outlet put in my garage, the cost would be about $400.

Next, many BEV come with a 240V on board charging system and charging plug and cord.

So all these high costs do not reflect reality for modern home owners. And if the dryer outlet is in the garage, then only the needed extension cord (perhaps $100 for a 25 ft cord) would be needed.

What about people who live in an apartment building or only have a carport, and not a garage?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What about people who live in an apartment building or only have a carport, and not a garage?

'Charging has been pretty challenging': Ford's CEO got a 'reality check' when he took an electric F-150 Lightning on a road trip — here are 3 big long-distance issues EV drivers face'Charging has been pretty challenging': Ford's CEO got a 'reality check' when he took an electric F-150 Lightning on a road trip — here are 3 big long-distance issues EV drivers face

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That’s funny considering they are now building a residential housings complex next to me without any provisions for charging stations. Also for heat they are installing gas Vs solar panels and electric! All for a starting cost of $450K. So much for the green energy mandate….

 

[Van]

What about people who live in an apartment building or only have a carport, and not a garage?

Are you asking if they could drive a plug-in Hybrid, like the Prius Prime, and charge it using 120V lighting circuitry? The answer is yes.

Are you claiming only people with garages can utilize electrified vehicles, the answer is no. At Dana Point Harbor, near the Harbor Master's office, there is a plug for employee parking only. I think it is wrong to provide government worker "gas" at tax payer expense, but that is for another discussion.

 

[KenH]

Are you claiming only people with garages can utilize electrified vehicles

No. I am asking how will people who live in apartments or townhouses or who have a carport and not a garage be able charge their EV at home? Such people will not have access at home to do so like those who have a garage will.

 

[Van]

As indicated already in post #9, Plug-in Hybrids like a Prius Prime, can be charged in any parking spot reachable by a 120 V extension cord. Thus either at home or at work charging is now available for daily average commute distances, less than 40 miles.

Returning to the claimed high price of BEV's, consider the Toyota Prius. A limited (top of the line) model costs about $36,000. Whereas a limited Prius Prime costs about $41,000 or about $5000 more for the 30 mile plus all electric range. The Prime battery is about 13 KWh so if the fossil fuel drive was removed, the cost would probably go down by about $10,000, and if 80 KWhs of added battery capacity were added, the cost would probably go up by about $13,000. So, a BEV with a 300 mile plus range should not cost more than $45,000.

 

[Reynolds]

Many newer homes already have a 240V outlet for an electric clothes dryer. When I had my AC unit installed, they upgraded my breaker box to accommodate the 240 circuit to the AC unit. So if I had a 240V outlet put in my garage, the cost would be about $400.

Next, many BEV come with a 240V on board charging system and charging plug and cord.

So all these high costs do not reflect reality for modern home owners. And if the dryer outlet is in the garage, then only the needed extension cord (perhaps $100 for a 25 ft cord) would be needed.

Then you can't dry clothes and charge your car at same time. You do realize that the true rapid chargers pull many more amps than the dryer wiring can handle. Volts is only half the equation. I could easily install a ev rapid charger at my house. I have 600amp service. The average home with 200amp service will struggle.

 

[Van]

Then you can't dry clothes and charge your car at same time. You do realize that the true rapid chargers pull many more amps than the dryer wiring can handle. Volts is only half the equation. I could easily install a ev rapid charger at my house. I have 600amp service. The average home with 200amp service will struggle.

More fiction.

A 6.6 KW charger powered at 240 Volts would pull less than 50 Amps. And we are talking about a Level 2 charger which is faster than a level 1 (120V) charger.

 

[Reynolds]

More fiction.

A 6.6 KW charger powered at 240 Volts would pull less than 50 Amps. And we are talking about a Level 2 charger which is faster than a level 1 (120V) charger.

I remember why I quickly weary of this place.
A standard clothes dryer outlet is 30 amp. The faster level 2 chargers use 48 amps. By code, you can not wire a 48 amp load into a 50 amp circuit. You sure can't by code put a dryer and a level 2 charger on same 50 amp circuit.
Go ahead and wire a 48 amp load to a 50 amp circuit and see if building inspector passes it.
Amp rating is surge rating. Continuous capacity must not exceed 80% of circuits rated load.

 

[canadyjd]

……

In summary, a nice fossil fuel car should be about $40,000 and a nice BEV should be about $45,000.

There was a no such thing as a “nice electric vehicle”

The raw materials for the batteries are mined with child slave labor. Every single person that buys an EV is supporting child slave labor mining in brutal conditions.

All to produce EVs that are far less efficient than gas vehicles, to solve a problem (climate change) that doesn’t exist.

peace to you

 

[Van]

I remember why I quickly weary of this place.
A standard clothes dryer outlet is 30 amp. The faster level 2 chargers use 48 amps. By code, you can not wire a 48 amp load into a 50 amp circuit. You sure can't by code put a dryer and a level 2 charger on same 50 amp circuit.
Go ahead and wire a 48 amp load to a 50 amp circuit and see if building inspector passes it.
Amp rating is surge rating. Continuous capacity must not exceed 80% of circuits rated load.

If your modern home has a 240 V, 40 Amp breaker circuit, it can power a 6.6 KWh On Board charger.
If your modern home has a 240V, 30 Amp breaker circuit, it can power a 5.7 KWh On board charger.

 

[Van]

There was a no such thing as a “nice electric vehicle”

The raw materials for the batteries are mined with child slave labor. Every single person that buys an EV is supporting child slave labor mining in brutal conditions.

All to produce EVs that are far less efficient than gas vehicles, to solve a problem (climate change) that doesn’t exist.

peace to you

We have been all through this. I have rebutted your false claims time and time again. LFP batteries are not mined by child labor. Full Stop.

 

[canadyjd]

We have been all through this. I have rebutted your false claims time and time again. LFP batteries are not mined by child labor. Full Stop.

No you haven’t. You attempt to negate the truth by limiting the discussion to one type, LFp.

Ignoring the truth about child slave labor in the production of EV is sickening.

Every person that purchases an EV is supporting child slave labor that produces a vehicle far less efficient than gas vehicles so they can pat themselves on the back about their “carbon footprint” to solve a problem (climate change) that doesn’t exist.

EV batteries are full of dangerous chemical/minerals /heavy metals that will, eventually, spill into the environment when the battery ruptured like every other battery ever produced ruptures.

EV batteries cannot be recycled. In 12-15 years we will have an environmental catastrophe that will literally make large portions of the planet uninhabitable.

peace to you

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I remember why I quickly weary of this place.
A standard clothes dryer outlet is 30 amp. The faster level 2 chargers use 48 amps. By code, you can not wire a 48 amp load into a 50 amp circuit. You sure can't by code put a dryer and a level 2 charger on same 50 amp circuit.
Go ahead and wire a 48 amp load to a 50 amp circuit and see if building inspector passes it.
Amp rating is surge rating. Continuous capacity must not exceed 80% of circuits rated load.

Right… by NEC code can’t be done, not in a residential environment… and that’s why these builders in my neighborhood are not even entertaining it. Since New Jersey taught that they want to be “ the next woke state” following in California’s footstep’s but they are not building for the Biden dream! Rather they are heating with gas, cooking with gas and not wiring homes for EV cars and trucks. Someone needs to tell Joe Biden that his plan ain’t workin.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There was a no such thing as a “nice electric vehicle”

The raw materials for the batteries are mined with child slave labor. Every single person that buys an EV is supporting child slave labor mining in brutal conditions.

All to produce EVs that are far less efficient than gas vehicles, to solve a problem (climate change) that doesn’t exist.

peace to you

Yea and there is that too. Funny your government doesn’t consider that Germaine to the plans to reduce global warming