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55-44-1

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by ScottEmerson, Nov 4, 2004.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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  2. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    That is justification?
    :rolleyes:

    Therefore, freedom of speech does not involve the freedom to be heard. That is, unless you happen to agree with the speaker.

    Thanks for clearing that up for us. [​IMG]
     
  3. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    It's like the freedom of the press. You have the freedom to produce 1,000,000 political tracts expressing your views, but I have the freedom to choose not to read it. Would you agree there?

    Maybe you and Joseph are disagreeing on what "right to be heard" means, but Joseph correctly speaks here. Just because someone wants to talk doesn't mean that I have to listen.
     
  4. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Remember that if Joseph is correct and Hillary is elected in 2008.

    Let me state it this way: someone has the right to be heard, but that does not override another person's right not to listen. The two are mutually exclusive.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Remember that if Joseph is correct and Hillary is elected in 2008.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Ok, I'll bite. What is that supposed to mean?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

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    You can go HERE and write an e-mail to your representative to block this move.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    No, you did not.

    Did you think I missed this question the first time???

    Why do you keep repeating yourself?

    What in the world are you talking about? The only way you know an opinion is illegitiatem is because you have heard it. Perhaps I assumed too much in this discussion. I would have thought that would have been obvious You don't have to let the opinion have equal weight. You can say, "That is a stupid idea." It runs along the same lines as "Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." The fact that people come up with crazy ideas does not mean we should consider them. They should be immediately put aside.

    No, they can say it (didn't I already say that???) ... That doesn't mean they should be listened to or considered as legitimate. When someone says that the holocaust didn't happen, we should immediately laugh them from the room.

    That is quite a long discussion that I don't have time to get into tonight.

    Please tell me you are kidding. This is a stupid idea that should not be heard. America's constitution and laws very clearly rule that out. This idea should not even be considered.

    Do you really think that we lack common sense? This is a lot easier than you are making it out to be.

    Not at all. In fact, it is philosophically correct. I don't have to listen to anything, much less everything. I can turn you off. I don't have to listen. The fact that you can voice an opinion does not mean anyone needs to listen to it.
     
  8. Kiffin

    Kiffin New Member

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    Interesting Thread.

    Certaintly everyone has a write to express his or her political opinion in America no matter what it is. I think all political parties should be included in the Presidential debates. That however does not mean all political opinion is equal. Certaintly Communist and Nazi ideas are not equal to Jefferson and Madison's ideas on government BUT in America that person is allowed to express his philosophy as long as he or she does not call for others to espouse violence or murder. The US Constitution does give Americans the right to express their opinions and ideas no matter if it is intelligent or even idiotic or even if I agree or disagree with it.

    The US Constitution also gives me the right if I choose, not to listen to that speech or idea. That is the American way. No one can force a individual to listen or read anything.
     
  9. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    No, you did not.</font>[/QUOTE]You are mistaken, Pastor Larry.

    Yes I did, and it was very obvious. Go back and re-read the post.
    It is right there in my post from last night. I VERY CLEARLY did this.
     
  10. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    [​IMG]
    Thank you!
     
  11. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    I'll let you decide what this is "supposed to mean."
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I give up. Why don't you just tell us instead of playing games?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Alright, let’s look at see. First, in response to my initial comments, you said:

    Then, when I said I didn’t know who Neil Boortz was so I didn’t know whether I agreed or not, you said,
    Now, please show me where you made any difference between what he said and what I said. I see no qualifications or defining comments that separate my comments from his. If they are there, then please show me.

    You have falsely accused me this whole thread of saying that people don’t have a right to a viewpoint. (I never said that and don’t believe it.) You accused me of saying the same thing Boortz said (which I have no way of knowing) and then you called it Orwellian. I do not see any place where you made any distinction. If you did, then please show it to me.
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    [​IMG]
    Thank you!
    </font>[/QUOTE]I am confused as to why you are thanking him. He said exactly what I said and you disagreed with me ... You have a right to hold your opinion. You do not have a right to demand that people listen to you. The right to free speech does not include the right to a hearing.
     
  15. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    You are still mistaken, Pastor Larry, and I will gladly show you.

    I couldn’t help but notice that you accurately reproduced your post to the discussion; however, you did not accurately reproduce mine. Here is my response to your comments, taken from this very board. I posted it on November 5th, posted @ 6:19 PM (the one I told you to re-read, remember?).

    I absolutely contend that the whole idea that we don't have the right to a particular viewpoint is EGREGIOUS. This is tantamount to thoughtcrime in Orwell's novel 1984.</font>[/QUOTE]I have VERY CLEARLY separated the statement in this reply.
     
  16. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    [Continued]

    That is demonstrated by picking up mid-paragraph with the next reply to you:
    They ABSOLUTELY have the right. Furthermore, what is your basis for the exclusion of what is arguably a relative term?
    I totally and completely "disagree with that." The people to whom you refer as "stupid" are entitled to have any point of view. It is disturbing that you would honestly offer this as a legitimate viewpoint. Nevertheless, you are entitled to your intolerance.</font>[/QUOTE]Notice that, once again, I separated your comments from your statement that you were unfamiliar with Neil. You cannot deny this.

    But don't take my word for it, go to page two and read it for yourself. It is the fifth post from the top of the page......
     
  17. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Whoa, hold on: I NEVER said that anyone has a right to "demand that people listen to you." Those are your words, not mine.
    In fact, I never said that at all. I simply said that they have the right to be heard. We differ on the simple point that I do not divorce the right to free speech from the right to be heard. I have maintained this from the beginning.
     
  18. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Oh, I am not playing games, Joseph. You are a smart guy, and you can figure it out.
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I have no idea what you are talking about or what you are implying, so why don't you just quit playing games and say what you mean outright?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond Active Member

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    Joseph:

    I have said it before, so I will say it again as you are apparently missing the point. I am not playing games. It really is that simple: I am not playing games. Stating it in perpetuity does not lend any credence to the claim. Go back and read what you have said in the past. Then consider the concept of divorcing the right to freedom of speech from the right to be heard.

    Have a great Sunday,

    BiR
     
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