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Featured A Biblical Defense of Arminianism #1

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Steven Yeadon, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Both systems do not corrupt the Gospel of say 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 if they are wrong. Instead, they are possibly false doctrine accepted with no purposeful ill intent.
     
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are some in of their ranks that hold to OSAS!
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Father does that!
     
  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I believe Calvinism does violate 1 cor 15 verse 3
    how that Christ died for our sins; according to the scriptures..
     
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  5. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    That is an interesting critique, I hope some Calvinists will defend their position vis a vis the idea limited atonement compromises the Gospel if incorrect.
     
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  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure i would use Pharaoh as an example of new testament salvation.
     
  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I'd Just not answer the Calvinst philosophy questions as they are given as a shaming tactic to impose what they consider a superior position. Monergism/Synergism is a false dichotomy invented in the 1890s. Calvinists are synergists based on their own definitions of these terms.
     
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  8. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I feel the best way forward is to take the bull by the horns in relation to Romans 9. Did God ever desire the salvation of Pharaoh or Judas? If not, then the average synergist position lacks accuracy.
     
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  9. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Wow, can you explain? I would like to know if the monergism/synergism debate is an artificial construct.
     
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  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Romans 9 is about the Tempory hardening of Israel who had rejected their messiah first.
     
  11. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    You would be mistaken. I am a Calvinist and Christ died for my sins. Steve is an Arminian and Christ died for Steve's sin. Therefore neither Calvinism nor Arminianism prevented Christ from dying for OUR sins (as 1 Cor 15:3 claims).
     
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  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    according to the scriptures Jesus died for not just my sins ,or just your sins , nor just Steve, s sins ,or Calvinists/ Arminain sins . But every single person head for head ,soul for soul. 2cor 5.19
     
  13. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    You are adding words to 2 Cor 5:19 and ignoring the context of the rest of the chapter.
    (Of course you will just respond to any attempt to exegete with another round of "Scripture Pong", so I will simply let anyone interested in the word of God read what scripture says for themselves:

    [2 Co 5:11-21 NASB]
    11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences. 12 We are not again commending ourselves to you but [are] giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you will have [an answer] for those who take pride in appearance and not in heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15 and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

    16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know [Him in this way] no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, [he is] a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all [these] things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

    20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin [to be] sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
     
  14. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Agreed, Romans 9-11 are a unit. Paul is talking about his hardened Jewish Brethren the whole time. Paul's argument ends with Paul saying they were hardened so that they may be shown mercy through the Gentile believers.
     
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  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I have absolutely no idea of what your take on these verses are ? Am I to guess?
     
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    How else are we supposed to understand: ?

    19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
     
  17. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    While scripture clearly says that God is not pleased with the death of anyone, none the less, that is the ultimate condition of all sinners. Since we were/are all conceived in sin, we were/are dead. Those of us who have been redeemed by the blood of Christ are born again and have spiritual and physical life.

    I do not believe God granted mankind free will. I believe the doctrine of free will can be clearly traced to Lucifer since he was first created to invoke his will.

    [Isa 14:13-14 KJV] 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

    Do you agree Lucifer was the first to invoke his will free of God's will?

    Besides, all scripture instructs God's children to submit to His will.

    The consequences of invoking our will:
    [Jas 4:13-16 KJV] 13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what [shall be] on the morrow. For what [is] your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye [ought] to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

     
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  18. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I don't want to go beyond scripture, but it does seem the serpent is the first rebel. He spawns rebellion in mankind and even angels.

    I will have to think on your argument against free will. I will have to answer it in my third thread.
     
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  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Conceived in sin ?
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets look at just one of the many statements from the OP:

    The evidence thus adds up to a scriptural understanding in which God wants all saved, synergism is a valid interpretation of scripture, and we do not do a good work by putting faith in Jesus Christ. Thus, there cannot be boasting in synergism. ​

    Lets say a person hears and understanding the gospel and then puts their faith in Christ. Ok so far.
    Now does this result in "automatic salvation" where the person is immediately born anew, becoming a new creation, a child of God. Or does "the will of God" play a part, i.e. He alone decides whether to credit your faith as righteousness or not?

    I think Arminians say salvation occurs automatically when you trust in Christ.
     
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