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Featured A Biblical Defense of Synergism #2

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Steven Yeadon, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    This thread will address whether putting faith in Jesus Christ is a work to boast about. This is a defense of synergism, which must teach that putting faith in Jesus is not a work and cannot be boasted of.

    To begin,

    The will is clearly sinful before salvation according to scripture. Romans 1 through Romans 8 shows the Law cannot be kept, and by not keeping the Torah we are inevitably under wrath. That is why we need the Cross.

    Romans 8 is clear without Life by the Spirit it is impossible to be holy. Without holiness we will not see God (Hebrews 12:14-17). We are changed forever when the Holy Spirit comes upon us at salvation.

    Calvinism is correct in that Romans 9 makes it clear that God must show mercy and compassion in choosing one for salvation in order to be saved. However, as mentioned in the last thread, there are verses indicating God wants all saved.

    Now, before I cover the idea mankind can choose to repent and have faith freely, I feel it is best to address that faith is a credit (not a work as the first half of Romans 4 explains).

    OK to the scriptures!

    Romans 4
    4 What then shall we say that Abraham, [a]our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not [c]before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

    Abraham has nothing to boast about. God credits Abraham as righteous when he has faith.

    4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

    This credit given by God for the act of faith is not a wage that is due. It is not counted as a work.

    6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

    7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
    And whose sins have been covered.
    8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”

    This credit based on faith covers our lawless deeds and sins. We are not held to account by God.

    9 Is this blessing then on [d]the circumcised, or on [e]the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was [f]circumcised, or [g]uncircumcised? Not while [h]circumcised, but while uncircumcised;

    Adherence to the Torah is not needed to receive the credit of righteousness through faith. While an uncircumcised man, Abraham receives the credit of righteousness for his faith.

    11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [j]he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,

    Abraham, who is given the sign of circumcision, is thus the father of those who are uncircumcised and are credited with righteousness based on faith.

    12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which [k]he had while uncircumcised.

    Abraham receives the sign of circumcision to be the father of those circumcised, who follow in his footsteps of having faith while uncircumcised.

    13 For the promise to Abraham or to his [l]descendants that he would be heir of the world was not [m]through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are [n]of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified;

    Abraham and his descendants are given an inheritance of the world based on faith, not because they hold to the Torah.

    I'll stop here before climbing into deep theology for the rest of Romans 4.
     
    #1 Steven Yeadon, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  2. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Stand by for " Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit " .. " The natural man " ; and the spin on Eph 2.8 and John 6.28
     
  3. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    That would be a real attack for my third and final thread on the nature of "free will." For this thread, it is not relevant to the OP.

    That said, so far, so good. The substance of my first two arguments is seen AFAIK. I must do a spectacular job showing "free will" in scripture to have a sound biblical argument, but which is only one among many.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did we have inherit faith in us before salvation happened, or did the Holy Spirit have to give that to us in order to receive Jesus as lord?
     
  5. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    That is a pertinent question for my third and final post. Please ask it again in a couple days in that thread.

    For now, I really don't want to stray off topic. Going off topic is a huge worry on the Baptist Board.

    Although, could you show me where faith is only from the Holy Spirit? I am all ears.
     
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    1 cor 1.21 is enough for me . I think
    Free will or lack thereof (or lack of a type of it, such as libertarian) is not a proper interpretive pre-consideration. Scriptural authority is the one and only concern, irrespective of the implications to man’s will. (Pro. 30:5)
    God’s sovereignty in salvation means that he executes it in accordance with Scripture and not in accordance with Hindu Fatalism.
     
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  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    There is no verse that says this . Also no verse says the Holy Spirit draws anyone either. I believe the Gospel is the power of God to salvation and there is no verse that say s man lost the ability to positively respond to God and His revelation.Namely the Gospel
     
  8. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I don't want to stray too off topic, but yeah 1 Corinth 1:21 is a great verse in a section that explains God's wisdom over and against the world's philosophers. All is in accordance to His Word.
     
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  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Its saying also God is pleased to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)
     
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  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Steven:

    Speaking for myself alone,
    I would ask that you search the Scriptures to determine if it has answers for the following:

    Who has faith and who does not,
    Where ( or from whom ) it originates,
    What it is the fruit of,
    Why God can only credit faith as righteousness,
    How long faith lasts,
    and whether or not it is the gift of God.

    But it's your thread,
    and I think that beginning at Romans 4 ( really Romans 3:21 ) would be a good place to start regarding faith in Jesus Christ and what that means to us as believers.:)
    I'm unable to read who you're addressing,
    so my comments here may seem a bit dis-jointed.

    I don't want to stray too far off-topic,
    But I think that 1 Corinthians 1:18-26 is a great passage in a section that explains who is going to listen to God's words ( true wisdom ), and who is not.;)
     
    #10 Dave G, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  11. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    These are great critiques of an argument for free will. Please ask them in a couple of days. #3 looks to be a lively discussion.
     
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  12. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    After some research, I think you are telling me to come to grips with Ephesians 1-2 in my theology. I will do so for my third and final thread. Thank you.
     
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 8:5-7
    Ephesians 2:1-5

    We are lost in sins and hate God!
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Gospel can do nothing to wake up any lost sinner apart from the working of the Holy Spirit in and on them!
     
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Which verse says this?
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How much of us was not affect by the fall of Adam?
     
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    'Wake up '?
    Thats not related to the question I ask .
     
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    ////The Gospel can do nothing to wake up any lost sinner apart from the working of the Holy Spirit in and on them!/////which verse says this ?
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sinners cannot will themselves to believe!
     
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  20. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    No verse says this ..
     
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