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A bit more about "parousia"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Covenanter, Nov 17, 2017.

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  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Sigh. I guess you don't understand providence.

    God doesn't have to do anything. He can do the Rapture anytime He wants to. He can permit any antichrist He wants to as being the final one. (There have been and are many, according to 1 John 2:18.) His providence in regards to the Rapture is not limited by Satan's puny efforts to provide a fake Christ.
    Absolutely not.
     
    #21 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2017
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  2. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    But there is no rapture in the bible.
    I read your grandfathers writing on it, he inserts the rapture in the olivet discourse, I don't see where he gets that from.


    Do you believe Thomas Ice? I watch enough debates with him and preterists.
     
    #22 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
  3. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Alright, I understand now.

    Then what is this final antichrist going to do?
     
    #23 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I believe there is one. When you categorically state that there is no rapture, that's pretty "in your face" to those of us who believe there is one, you know. :(
    Since you once told me in a PM not to recommend anything about prophecy by John R. Rice, I can't help you there.
    Do I believe him about what? He has a lot of material, and I've not read much of his stuff on prophecy. I will say that I recommend his website to my "Dispensational Theology" students, since he is a scholar in that area.
     
    #24 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2017
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You want the whole Biblical doctrine of the Antichrist here on a BB thread? Can't do that. Try more focused queries.
     
    #25 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2017
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I glad you are not a pilot too.

    Back in the 1970s, the CEO of Northwest Orient Airlines, Don Nyrop, had a rule that two born again Christians could not be in the same cockpit at the same time in case of the rapture. He didn't want any of his planes to be without both pilot and copilot.
     
    #26 TCassidy, Nov 22, 2017
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  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I love it!
     
    #27 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2017
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    WEB
    1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,
    17 then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.

    Latin Vulgate
    Ad Thessalonicenses I: 16. quoniam ipse Dominus in iussu et in voce archangeli et in tuba Dei descendet de caelo et mortui qui in Christo sunt resurgent primi
    17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

    English: Caught up. Latin: rapiemur. Transliteration: Rapture.
     
    #28 TCassidy, Nov 22, 2017
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  9. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Well I meant its not spelled out.
     
    #29 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
  10. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    ROFL!
    That is really funny. Wow
     
    #30 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
  11. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    So the Lord is coming in the air and then turning right back around?
    Isn't a resurrection going on here as well?
     
    #31 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    That depends on whether you are Pre-Trip, Mid-Trib, or Post-Trib.

    Most dispensationalists believe there are two resurrections. The resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust.
     
    #32 TCassidy, Nov 22, 2017
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    See my post #28 where it is spelled out.
     
    #33 TCassidy, Nov 22, 2017
  14. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    1st thes 4:13
    According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

    So if John is saying the parousia is the second coming and a physical return of Christ, then how can you include a secret rapture in here, if 4:16 happens at the "Parousia"?

    Is it not saying these are the same event?
     
    #34 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    What would it take, if 1 Thess. 4 isn't good enough for you? Something like, "There's going to be a rapture and all Christians will fly like Superman! Up to be with Jesus!"
     
    #35 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2017
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  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What secret rapture?
     
    #36 TCassidy, Nov 22, 2017
  17. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    so you do not believe in a secret rapture before the "great tribulation"?

    What is your idea of the rapture?
     
    #37 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  18. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    That would be helpful :Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Biggrin

    I dont think superman existed in bible times, but I could be wrong. Do you have any supporting documents on this? :D
     
    #38 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  19. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    John R Rice

    So it is a two phase Parousia with the first phase not being a physical coming? But if thats the case, how can Parousia always mean physical coming? Or Is it two physical comings?

    I thought you said John, the Antichrist doesn't rule the world?
     
    #39 prophecy70, Nov 22, 2017
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yep, that's what I said; he will try, though. I'm out of here till Friday.

    Happy Thanksgiving.
     
    #40 John of Japan, Nov 22, 2017
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