A bogus way to try and salvage OSAS

No, I don't. If Jesus meant have faith, he would have said so. He would be repeating himself when he said 'seeth the Son, and believeth on him'. Seeing and believing are two different things. We do not have to see to have faith.

John 20:29
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

Amen it is a warning to saved Christians!

 

I agree with mman. Ephesians were written to the Christians, even, also, Galatians were written to Christians with warnings.

Gal. 5:21 warns us, "that they which do such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God."

Throughout in the Bible, 'kingdom of God/heaven' never been called, 'a thousand years of Kingdom'.

None of 'a thousand years' is mentioned in the Bible, find only in Revelation chapter 20.

Use our common sense of 'kingdom of God' speaks of above, not earthly things, also, it is not a temporary things. These are from above are eternality and never fade away, which speak of everlasting life with Christ.

Also, use our good common sense of John 3:3, 5 telling us that we must be born again, OR we cannot have eternal life(go into everlasting punishment).

Nowhere in the Bible telling us that a Christian shall suffer temporary punishment in the lake of fire as "puragtory". Bible simples teaching us, if we do not believing on Christ, the wrath of God shall abideth upon us(John 3:36), shall send us to everlasting punishment.

Also, there is no promise in the Bible telling us that a Christian shall be finally being released out of the lake of fire beyond the judgment day. Once a unfaithful servant is cast, servant shall be remain in it for forever and ever...... that's it.

Not funny.

Judgment Day is serious and terror, we all must be fear at the Lord, because He shall judge our life.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

How many times does the bible have to say something before it is true? If Revelation says thousand years, thousand years it is. Unless you think Revelation should not be in the bible. Then we have another discussion.

 

I need go to sleep now, cuz I have to work 3rd shift tonight.

By the way, we should be aware that the book of Revelation is filled of symbolic meanings.

'A thousand years' of Rev. 20:2-6 do not take literal exactly length time, it represents period as long time. Church have been reigning with Christ in heaven for almost 2,000 years since Christ risen from the death, Christ already give the key(power) to Church of Matt. 16:18-19, that the Church have been spreading the gospel over the world. That why Satan is hinder from stop Church spreading the gospel to the world.

Later this weekend or next week, I will discuss on 'thosuand' with verses, what these saith?

I am seem off the topic. But, I am trying to stay sticky with salvation issue with verses as what BobRyan bring it up.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

You have been threatening to discuss this thousand year issue for a long time. I realize there are symbols in Revelation. However the Bible is pretty clear on what are symbols and in most cases interprets the symbol for you. There is no interpretation given to indicate that the thousand years is symbolic and means a long time.

 

The key to this verse is the term "sons of disobedience". This indicates that the ones in whom Paul is speaking about is the lost. Because Paul is speaking to the church does not mean a loss of salvation. Under "your" standard we would need to repent and get saved every week if not every day. Paul is saying don't act like them.

 

He is talking to saints and warns them not to become sons of disobedience.

What if a saint does act like them? Everyone (including the saints whom he is warning) who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Obviously there is deception. What is that deception? Stating that saints who are sexually immoral or impure, or one who is covetous still has his inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. No, don't be deceived, the wrath of God is coming upon them.

 

"Here is my question, If OSAS were true, how could it ever be possible for someone who has escaped the defilements through the knowledge of our LORD and SAVIOR Jesus Christ to be better off having never known the way of righteousness?"

We can fall from grace (backslide) but we do not lose our salvation.

To answer your question. Before we were saved, we did not have fellowship with God.

After we were saved, we DID have fellowship with God and the pain is much worse to backslide and lose that fellowship than to never have had it to begin with...

 

I'll discuss it.

Unless you are beheaded you won't be reigning for 1000 years, so it probably won't apply to you or anyone you know.

Never let obsure passages trump or override the plain passages. The easy passages should always be used to understand the difficult passages. In other words, the intrepretation of a difficult passage should never contradict an easy passage. Here is an easy passage: John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

An hour is coming in which ALL who are in the tombs will come out and be judged, both good and bad.

I Thess 4:13-17 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

"The" coming (singular), not "a" coming. At "the" coming of the Lord, the dead will rise first. We already know that from John 5 that the good and evil will be raised at one time. So, the faithful dead will rise first, Jesus will bring them with Him and those faithul who are alive and remain will be caught up in the air with THEM and WE will forever be with the Lord.

I Cor 15:50-55 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

"Death is swallowed up in victory."
"O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?"

Don't overlook the obvious. We will not all be dead (sleep) but we ALL (dead and alive) will be changed "in a moment". When will the happen? At the last trumpet. How long will it take? A moment, in the twinkling of an eye.

So, here is the order of events. The trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we (who are not asleep) shall be changed.

This will take place in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, or as Jesus said, an hour is coming in which ALL the dead will be raised, good and evil.

 

So, it's better to go to hell having never been saved in the first place than to lose fellowship and still be saved?

Is that what you are saying?

A slight temporary lapse in fellowship (which will be restored when the person is in heaven) and an eternal reward in heaven is worse than an eternal damnation in hell? WOW. Is that what you really believe?

 

Excellent point. :thumbs:

 

Why would you equate knowing the way of righteousness with being saved? Is that how we get saved, by being righteous?

 

THis is a DIRECT contradiction Scripture -- Galatians 5:4.

JDale

 

My My My!

And Jesus thought He was making it so clear and simple when He told them over and over....believe on Me and thou shall be saved!

But He knew that all of His other teachings about life and the unsaved and the backsliders and the future reign would get all twisted and distorted. He knew this would happen.

But Praise God His security plan depends solely on Him. Thank God or all of us born of Him would be in BIG TROUBLE!!

:thumbs: :wavey:

 

The trouble is that I've known plenty who have been far better Christians, far more spiritual than me, who have subsequently fallen away and turned their backs on God. This is borne out by numerous Scriptures in the NT about the need to endure to the end, warnings against falling away etc