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Featured A Call to Biblical Truth

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Protestant, Dec 11, 2021.

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  1. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    1. Is it possible to be elected to eternal life without sanctification and holiness?

    2. Does the Bible teach the indissoluble connection between justification and sanctification?

    3. If the answer to the first question is ‘no’ and the answer to the second question is ‘yes,’ is it possible to determine who are the Reprobate?

    John Calvin had the audacity to say ‘yes’ to this third question:

    “In regard to the elect, we regard calling as the evidence of election, and justification as another symbol of its manifestation, until it is fully accomplished by the attainment of glory. But as the Lord seals his elect by calling and justification, so by excluding the reprobate either from the knowledge of his name or the sanctification of his Spirit, he by these marks in a manner discloses the judgment which awaits them.” (Institutes, Book 3, Chapter 21, ¶ 7).

    Calvin was able to answer in the affirmative because he rightly understood the answers to questions 1 & 2.

    1. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love (Eph. 1:4).

    Election is unto eternal life, which will be a holy and justified life because God purposed it. What God purposes He always accomplishes (Isaiah 46:10).

    2. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren (Romans 8:28-29).

    Union with Christ, the Holy One of God, includes partaking in His righteousness and holiness (1 Cor. 1:30). Thus, if it is possible to separate justification and sanctification from the person of Christ, then and only then, will it be possible to separate them in the lives of Christians.

    I now draw the readers’ attention to the photo below:

    [​IMG]

    The man in the photo dressed in religious regalia, sporting a beanie, purports to be a Christian: called by the Gospel, justified by faith and good works, sanctified by the Spirit, walking with God, beloved of God, obedient to His commands, loving Him above all else.

    Pope Francis is no ordinary professing Christian. He has been ratified by his peers to be the current Supreme Head of the Church instituted by Christ. He has been chosen to be the infallible spiritual master in matters of faith and morals.

    Having pursued decades of biblical studies, having pastored thousands of parishioners, having mentored hundreds of priests, having prayed hundreds of thousands of prayers, with or without the Rosary and holy relics, this photo reveals to many the horrific state of Jorge Mario Bergoglio’s soul.

    That is, to many, not all.

    To many, not all, this photo depicts the spiritual state of a very religious man who lacks saving knowledge of our Lord.

    To many, not all, this photo reveals a very religious man who walks after the flesh, not after the Spirit.

    To many, not all, this photo reveals a very religious man who is carnally minded, at enmity with God.

    To many, not all, this photo shows a very religious man dead in trespasses and sins, a son of disobedience, upon whom the wrath of God abides.

    To many, not all, this photo manifests a religious man lustfully engaged in spiritual fornication with a demon, for behind all idols are demons (1 Cor. 10:20).

    To many, not all, this photo exhibits a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction, who hates the truth and holiness of God in Jesus Christ.

    If this be true, how can those who follow this master not be likewise doomed?

    For if the blind lead the blind will not both fall into a pit?

    Is the servant greater than his master?
     
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  2. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    **
    According to the Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn, NY, “Many Protestant Christians will accuse Catholic Christians of making idols and quote Exodus 20:3-5. What they fail to do is understand the above text in its context…… God is not condemning the making of all images, just images that one would worship as a false god….. God condemns the practice of making false idols to be worshiped as gods as in the case of the golden calf, not images that are used to aid in the worship of God as in the case of the cherub on the Ark of the Covenant…… God is working his life saving grace through a graven image……. One last objection that Protestant Christians bring up is how Catholics kneel before a statue or image of Mary or one of the Saints; that this is a form of idolatry. Again, in the context of Exodus 20 this applies to bowing down before a false idol in order to worship it” (Source: Statues of Mary and the Saints? Isn’t this idolatry? - Diocese of Brooklyn)

    Let us now cite the judgment of no less an English Protestant Calvinist Nonconformist than John Owen, D. D.:

    The church of Rome, no safe guide, or, Reasons to prove that no rational man, who takes due care of his own eternal salvation, can give himself up unto the conduct of that church in matters of religion (London: Nathaniel Ponder, 1679.)

    “The last thing I shall instance in of this kind is, the Adoration or Worship of Images. God saies concerning it expresly, Thou shalt not make unto thy self any graven Images, thou shalt not bow down to them, nor worship them. They say contrary; Thou shalt make unto thy self graven Images, thou shalt bow down to them and adore them. And in their use they make them the stage plaies in Religion, wherewith the minds of ignorant unstable Persons are allured and seduced into all manner of superstitious practices, and turned off from the simplicity of the Gospel. For being once perswaded on the credit of their Guide, that the making, use, and Adoration of them are lawfull, there is enough in the carnal minds of men, to make them dote, and even be mad upon them. Wherefore no less service is done unto the interest of sin, and the Kingdom of Satan hereby, than if they should have taken off all sense of the Authority of God from the consciences of men, in the Prohibition of those things which their sensual lusts are most prone unto. Could they have dissolved the obligation of the commands of God, against Adultery, or Stealing, and left men unto the guidance of their own lusts and inclinations, it is evident what abominable excesses the generality of men would run into. Neither do the lusts of the mind engage persons with less fierceness into the pursuit of their objects, than do those of the flesh. And thence the disannulling of this command of God, hath been an inlet unto all abominable Idolatry. But herein they will not allow those who give up themselves unto their conduct, once to consider the direct contradiction that is between God’s commands and theirs; but believe they must [believe] what their Church believes, and practise accordingly; which is the most intollerable Tyranny over the souls of men, that ever was attempted. Only they will tell us of Latria. and Dulia, and Hyperdulia, of Religious Worship that is direct or reductive, transient or terminated on this or that object, and after a maze of the like insignificant Terms, the conclusion is positive, You shall worship graven Images (pp. 31-32).

    Baptist Rev. Billy Graham Found No Serious Errors in Catholicism

    “I’ve found that my beliefs are essentially the same as those of orthodox Roman Catholics, for instance. They believe in the Virgin Birth, and so do I. They believe in the blood atonement of the cross, and so do I. They believe in the resurrection of Jesus and the coming judgment of God, and so do I. We only differ in some matters of later church tradition” (McCall’s, Jan 1978).

    Unlike John Owen who believed the Roman Church anti-Christian, Rev. Graham viewed the Roman Church as a safe guide in matters of religion and salvation as he led multitudes of crusade attendees back into the Roman Church. The two views of these men could not be more disparate.

    Let us not forget the humble public opinion of Baptist Dr. John Rice, “But about Pope John 23, there is some sweet evidence of a forgiven heart, of a trusting soul, of one who personally knew the Lord Jesus and loved and trusted him.” Was Pope John Paul 1 a Born-Again Christian? (Murfreesboro: Sword of the Lord, 1979).


    [​IMG]

    The humble ‘Christian’ Pope John 23 in his royal regalia complete with Triple Tiara representing his divine authority over Heaven, the Earth and that which is below the Earth.

    John Owen leaves us with an apt description of the Roman Church in parable. He compares the Catholic Church to a school pretending to teach all the required courses of science, both divine and secular, while at the same time disallowing any other school to teach these truths. “Yet if I saw the posts of the [school] house hung like Shambles with the limbs of slaughtered person; if the ground about it be strewed with the bones and ashes of men burned to death; here lying one strangled, there another stabbed, a third poisoned; all for no other cause, but either because they would not submit to the teaching thereof, or would not learn things foolish and wicked, I should avoid such a School and its Power so far as I were able” (ibid. pp. 12-13).
     
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  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made (constituted) sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made (constituted) righteous.” Romans 5:19 (KJV 1900)

    What most do not understand is that Christ saves believers through His shed blood and his imputed righteousness. Our works are wood, hay, and stubble at the worst and cannot save even at their best. If improved on, they merit a better resurrection. But even then, believers remain saved by Christ’s imputed righteousness, even if all our petty works are destroyed by fire.

    “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 (KJV 1900)
     
  4. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Pope Francis ‘venerating’ a graven doll called ‘Our Lady of Aparecida,’ the High Goddess of Brazil.

    Pope Francis is kept quite busy attending to seemingly infinite religious rituals, most of which culminate in the blessing, worship and patronage of a goddess whom they call 'The Blessed Virgin Mary.'

    The BVM Herself is also quite busy, either by making personal appearances to the illiterate and spiritually ignorant worldwide, or by delivering sealed prophecies, all the while proclaiming commandments which conveniently glorify her as they negate the commandments of God.

    The ‘Holy Father’ is quite proud, brazen and open about his undying love, trust and faith in the powers of the BVM under her many titles and appearances, including:

    [​IMG]

    Pope Francis supplicating the Black Madonna of Częstochowa

    [​IMG]

    Pope Francis laying a floral show of adoration to Our Lady of Lujan

    [​IMG]

    Pope Francis points to the all-powerful goddess, Our Lady of Fatima.

    In addition to a replica of the miraculous Grotto at Lourdes, the Vatican has numerous Marian idols readily available for intercessory prayers directed to the BVM:

    [​IMG]

    The Pope rarely goes empty handed when entreating the divine favors of Our Lady.


    [​IMG]

    The Pope seeks the divine energy and supernatural spirit of Our Lady, who neither lives, nor breathes, nor thinks one holy thought in her unholy wooden graven head.

    The unbiased reader must then ask, “Is the Roman Pontiff a plant which the heavenly Father has personally planted?”

    Or, if not, then when will he and his false church and its members be completely uprooted?

    “And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast” (Rev. 18:2).
     
  5. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Cursed is the man who makes a carved idol or molten image—an abomination to the LORD, the work of the hands of a craftsman—and sets it up in secret.’ And let all the people say, ‘Amen! (Deut. 27:15)

    He said to me, “Son of man, have you seen what the elders of Israel are doing in the darkness, each at the shrine of his own idol? They say, ‘The LORD does not see us; the LORD has forsaken the land’” (Ezekiel 8:12).

    Unlike the ancient Israelites who practiced idolatry in secret, away from condemning prying eyes (or so they thought), Pope Francis, the proclaimed Church ratified Chief Shepherd, Prophet, Priest and King of Christianity, has nary the slightest twinge of guilt as he openly, brazenly defies, opposes and despises the very One he claims to love, honor and obey.

    This overt hatred of our holy God can only be accomplished when one’s conscience is seared through the hardening hot iron of God’s wrath of reprobation.

    The Cursed are our Brothers and Sisters in Christ?

    Despite the numerous admonitions in Scripture which insist unequivocally that idolators will NOT inherit the kingdom of God (because they are NOT Christians), a bevy of highly revered religious seminarians have signed a public declaration [Evangelicals and Catholics Together] which states, “Evangelicals and Catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ.” Evangelicals and Catholics Together (gty.org)

    Should we be shocked and surprised at such blatant disregard to the warnings of Scripture by those who hold esteemed offices of leadership in the professing Christian Church?

    For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires (2 Timothy 4:3).
     
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  6. Campion

    Campion Member

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    Is the second commandment back in effect now that many churches have put away their nativity sets?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The nativity sets mythologcalizes the historical record, Matthew and Luke. Two events as one. Not unlike making Noah's ark into a childern's boat.
     
  8. Campion

    Campion Member

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    Irrelevant.

    Is the second commandment now back in effect after a brief hiatus for Christmas nativity (and epiphany) sets?
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    How do you think the second comandment was broken? The baby is not God. The person who was then the baby was always God being the Son. Now do you regard all paintings depicting the man Jesus who was the Christ to break the second commandment too?
     
  10. Campion

    Campion Member

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    If you scroll up, there are a series of posts with several pictures of the pope and statues of icons of Mary. The assertion is this is idolatry.

    I was wondering if this is idolatry only because the pope is the one with the statues? Where I live, many non-Catholic churches have nativity sets in their sanctuaries or outside of their buildings. Are they also not guilty of idolatry? Does the second commandment somehow get suspended during Christmas or does it simply not apply because the presumption is only Catholics worship statues?

    Just wondering.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    If the nativity set is use to venerate the baby Jesus and His mother depicted in the art then I would agree it would make it contrary to the second commandment.
    It makes a difference how art is used.
    In the story to be depicted the nativity set is to tell is that Jesus in His earthly life was vinerated by the shepards and the wise men in person. The shepards the baby. The wise men vinerate a toddler at a house.
     
    #11 37818, Dec 31, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
  12. Campion

    Campion Member

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    What is wrong with venerating the people whom the pictures / statues / icons represent?

    The nativity set serves as a reminder of the people depicted by the statues. When we set them up, we typically put them in a prominent place and treat them with care and reverence, which is the very definition of venerating.

    I am just trying to understand if only popes are guilty of violating the second commandment because his is, well...Catholic. Are others who also venerate statues (such as nativity sets) not guilty of violating the second commandment because they are...well non-Catholics?

    It seems like a double-standard.
     
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It is absolutely stupid. Art or photos are not the persons.
     
  14. Campion

    Campion Member

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    Straw man. Is someone arguing photos or art ARE actual persons?

    Photos and art often REPRESENT people, such as nativity sets. So once again, is venerating a nativity set, a violation of the second commandment if a non-catholic does has one? Or can only popes violate the second commandment?

    See my issue?
     
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Venerating things are stupid and also violation of the second commandment. God's Law is rational. The stupidity is irrational.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them,


    nor serve them:

    for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,
    visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    Do not make
    Do not bow down
    Do not serve
     
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  17. Campion

    Campion Member

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    So your church does not have a nativity display?

    And I can presume you have no pictures of anyone on your phone’s camera roll nor photos of your loved ones hanging in prominence in your home?

    If this is the case, you have reached nearly Calvinist perfection.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    lol...37 is not a Calvinist:Cautious:Cautious:Cautious
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The church I attend is not Calvinist. I am not a Calvinist. And I think you are very confused on the matter of images and no worship of images in any way.
     
  20. Campion

    Campion Member

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    You seem to be carrying their water as they are extreme iconoclasts.

    And yes, I am very confused by your posts. Earlier you seemed to have no issue with nativity sets. Now apparent all images are bad.

    So again, which is it? Is the second commandment back in effect now that nativity sets have been put up until next year? Or is it always forbidden to have them?
     
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