Featured A Case for Giving Satan and his Angels Eternal Torment

Steven Yeadon · Jun 6, 2017

I want to make the case that at least Satan and his angels deserve an eternity in hell.

They are in some way guilty for every sin that has ever been committed from Adam and the woman on in two ways:

1. This is because they are simply put evil. They agree with the sin of Adam and the woman, they govern the world in such a way as to be sinful and dark (1 John 5:19), and the bible gives the leader of the rebellion, Satan, the title: "the Evil One." Satan and his angel's dark hearts stand to the side and agree with every sin that has ever occurred or will ever occur. Something natural to naturally evil entities. In fact, it seems obvious that if Satan and his angels were given unfettered access to this world, they would propagate the worst horrors imaginable for eternity. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

2. The sin of the serpent and indeed of Adam and the woman deserves an eternal punishment for they have consigned an entire people called humanity, of which we are members, to suffering, death, and even hell. These three people are even responsible for the tortured death and life of Jesus the Son of God Himself, who had to suffer what he did to save those damned by Adam, the woman, and the serpent. They are guilty of an infinite crime in practice.

Furthermore:

3. Satan's very title as "The Enemy" shows that he wishes to dominate even our heavenly Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus. Knowing evil, he would certainly want to throw all three into hell along with the martyrs and the saints, including me, if he had a chance. A crime that cannot even be understood to us in something remotely quantifiable given how utterly evil it is. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

4. It seems to me that anyone whose heart ever becomes dark enough to be Satan or one of his angels has crossed a line into sin so great before God and reasonable people as to deserve an eternal punishment in torment. At the very least it is what they would wish upon us for loving others at all. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

Now, what I am not capable of yet is how to show that the unrepentant wicked deserve the same fate as Satan and his angels. However, the bible tells us that unbelievers have the same fate (Matthew 25:41).

I'll add more later that I am working on.

My go to scriptures for understanding from the bible alone that Satan, his angels, and unbelievers are going to eternal torment are Revelation 14:9-11 and Revelation 20:10.

Steven Yeadon · Jun 7, 2017

I had more to write on this topic, but my mind has wiped on what it was going to be. I may make another post out of it when I remember it. I put this analysis up to and against any idea of a finite hell or of annihilationism.

Steven Yeadon · Jun 12, 2017

I am shocked that no one has engaged me, especially from the camp of those on this board who are annihilationists. I am now assuming I made a great argument that is very difficult to beat. Am I wrong?

Reynolds · Jun 12, 2017

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

I want to make the case that at least Satan and his angels deserve an eternity in hell.

They are in some way guilty for every sin that has ever been committed from Adam and the woman on in two ways:

1. This is because they are simply put evil. They agree with the sin of Adam and the woman, they govern the world in such a way as to be sinful and dark (1 John 5:19), and the bible gives the leader of the rebellion, Satan, the title: "the Evil One." Satan and his angel's dark hearts stand to the side and agree with every sin that has ever occurred or will ever occur. Something natural to naturally evil entities. In fact, it seems obvious that if Satan and his angels were given unfettered access to this world, they would propagate the worst horrors imaginable for eternity. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

2. The sin of the serpent and indeed of Adam and the woman deserves an eternal punishment for they have consigned an entire people called humanity, of which we are members, to suffering, death, and even hell. These three people are even responsible for the tortured death and life of Jesus the Son of God Himself, who had to suffer what he did to save those damned by Adam, the woman, and the serpent. They are guilty of an infinite crime in practice.

Furthermore:

3. Satan's very title as "The Enemy" shows that he wishes to dominate even our heavenly Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus. Knowing evil, he would certainly want to throw all three into hell along with the martyrs and the saints, including me, if he had a chance. A crime that cannot even be understood to us in something remotely quantifiable given how utterly evil it is. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

4. It seems to me that anyone whose heart ever becomes dark enough to be Satan or one of his angels has crossed a line into sin so great before God and reasonable people as to deserve an eternal punishment in torment. At the very least it is what they would wish upon us for loving others at all. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

Now, what I am not capable of yet is how to show that the unrepentant wicked deserve the same fate as Satan and his angels. However, the bible tells us that unbelievers have the same fate (Matthew 25:41).

I'll add more later that I am working on.

My go to scriptures for understanding from the bible alone that Satan, his angels, and unbelievers are going to eternal torment are Revelation 14:9-11 and Revelation 20:10.
Click to expand...

God does not need "a case" to explain His righteous actions. Sin is sin. A sinner is a sinner. James made it plain that any infraction of The Law, makes one guilty of violating the entire Law. So, the liar deserves eternal Hell as much as Hitler deserves it.

Steven Yeadon · Jun 12, 2017

Reynolds said: ↑

God does not need "a case" to explain His righteous actions. Sin is sin. A sinner is a sinner. James made it plain that any infraction of The Law, makes one guilty of violating the entire Law. So, the liar deserves eternal Hell as much as Hitler deserves it.
Click to expand...

Very true, thank you for the correction.

I guess what I should be doing is humbly understanding His justice to the extent that the bible reveals it. I still believe my points are logical though, for a discussion about applying God's justice and wrath, but I could be wrong in my points. They would have to be discussed and vetted.

BTW, I understand now from your correction that I never "arrive" and am "the Man on top of things." Obeying Proverbs does not allow for such foolishness. I will ever be a humble scholar in this world in order to avoid being a fool or a simple.

wTanksley · Jun 12, 2017

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

I want to make the case that at least Satan and his angels deserve an eternity in hell.
Click to expand...

As a conditionalist, I think you've made a great case for that. Clearly Satan and his angels are incredibly evil and worthy of any punishment God deems them worthy of.

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

I am shocked that no one has engaged me, especially from the camp of those on this board who are annihilationists. I am now assuming I made a great argument that is very difficult to beat. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Yes. You've made a great argument, but you've failed to ask "does my argument prove what I intended it to prove?" Go back through your argument looking at it as a conditionalist might, and you'll observe that a conditionalist could and would say all of the exact same things in order to "prove" that Satan deserves death. You entered your argument simply assuming that the proper punishment for evil is torment; you concluded that since Satan is evil, he deserves torment. A conditionalist enters this argument thinking that the proper punishment for evil is death, and should be followed by the proper remedy for evil, the complete obliteration of the evil.

A circular argument like this isn't a fallacy; it simply doesn't prove its own premise.

However, there is an interesting error in your claims.

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

1. This is because they are simply put evil. [...] Something natural to naturally evil entities. In fact, it seems obvious that if Satan and his angels were given unfettered access to this world, they would propagate the worst horrors imaginable for eternity. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.
Click to expand...

What "seems obvious" to you isn't what the Bible says Satan does by nature. The Bible says he lies in order to murder. His purpose is killing, ending the lives of God's followers (and anyone else who gets in his way). What is the penalty for shedding man's blood? (Death.) There's absolutely no Biblical hint that Satan controls any kind of torture chamber; if eternal torment is true, it's true because God wills it; Satan has no say at all in that, and the Bible never holds him guilty of that.

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

3. Satan's very title as "The Enemy" shows that he wishes to dominate even our heavenly Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus. Knowing evil, he would certainly want to throw all three into hell along with the martyrs and the saints, including me, if he had a chance. A crime that cannot even be understood to us in something remotely quantifiable given how utterly evil it is. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure none of this is Biblical. The Bible does seem to imply that Satan wanted to be alongside God, but not that he wanted to rule Him. Note that Satan's crime against Jesus was killing him -- a charge Christ brought directly against the religious leaders as those representing Satan and doing his work. The ones who tormented Him, the Romans, he forgave -- and the leader who sentenced him to torment seems to have been trying to get the Jews to stop asking for his death. This is the practical crime of Satan -- to desire and carry out murder, the willful killing of innocents for his own advantage. It's what he wants, and what he does.

Reynolds said: ↑

So, the liar deserves eternal Hell as much as Hitler deserves it.
Click to expand...

Undoubtably any violation of the Law makes one guilty of all... But also undoubtably some people are judged more strictly than others, as Paul explains at the beginning of Romans 2.

Reynolds · Jun 12, 2017

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

Very true, thank you for the correction.

I guess what I should be doing is humbly understanding His justice to the extent that the bible reveals it. I still believe my points are logical though, for a discussion about applying God's justice and wrath, but I could be wrong in my points. They would have to be discussed and vetted.

BTW, I understand now from your correction that I never "arrive" and am "the Man on top of things." Obeying Proverbs does not allow for such foolishness. I will ever be a humble scholar in this world in order to avoid being a fool or a simple.
Click to expand...

I will be honest with you. I trust God. He is good. He is righteous. If I resort to logic, I can not understand or justify hell fire and eternal torment. If I resort to logic
l also can not understand how shed blood forgives sin. That is why I do not try to explain God with human logic.

Yeshua1 · Jun 13, 2017

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

I want to make the case that at least Satan and his angels deserve an eternity in hell.

They are in some way guilty for every sin that has ever been committed from Adam and the woman on in two ways:

1. This is because they are simply put evil. They agree with the sin of Adam and the woman, they govern the world in such a way as to be sinful and dark (1 John 5:19), and the bible gives the leader of the rebellion, Satan, the title: "the Evil One." Satan and his angel's dark hearts stand to the side and agree with every sin that has ever occurred or will ever occur. Something natural to naturally evil entities. In fact, it seems obvious that if Satan and his angels were given unfettered access to this world, they would propagate the worst horrors imaginable for eternity. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

2. The sin of the serpent and indeed of Adam and the woman deserves an eternal punishment for they have consigned an entire people called humanity, of which we are members, to suffering, death, and even hell. These three people are even responsible for the tortured death and life of Jesus the Son of God Himself, who had to suffer what he did to save those damned by Adam, the woman, and the serpent. They are guilty of an infinite crime in practice.

Furthermore:

3. Satan's very title as "The Enemy" shows that he wishes to dominate even our heavenly Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus. Knowing evil, he would certainly want to throw all three into hell along with the martyrs and the saints, including me, if he had a chance. A crime that cannot even be understood to us in something remotely quantifiable given how utterly evil it is. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

4. It seems to me that anyone whose heart ever becomes dark enough to be Satan or one of his angels has crossed a line into sin so great before God and reasonable people as to deserve an eternal punishment in torment. At the very least it is what they would wish upon us for loving others at all. They are guilty of an infinite crime in their hearts.

Now, what I am not capable of yet is how to show that the unrepentant wicked deserve the same fate as Satan and his angels. However, the bible tells us that unbelievers have the same fate (Matthew 25:41).

I'll add more later that I am working on.

My go to scriptures for understanding from the bible alone that Satan, his angels, and unbelievers are going to eternal torment are Revelation 14:9-11 and Revelation 20:10.
Click to expand...

All sinners apart from Christ deserve it also!

Aaron · Jun 17, 2017

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

I am shocked that no one has engaged me, especially from the camp of those on this board who are annihilationists. I am now assuming I made a great argument that is very difficult to beat. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

No. Are not wrong. You nailed the lid on the "conditionalists" coffins, who do not define death as does the Bible.

Yeshua1 · Jun 17, 2017

Aaron said: ↑

No. Are not wrong. You nailed the lid on the "conditionalists" coffins, who do not define death as does the Bible.
Click to expand...

They redefine the scriptures in order to accommodate a more "gental/loving" viewpoint...
Problem is that Hell is eternal, no matter how bad that would seem to us...

Steven Yeadon · Jun 17, 2017

Reynolds said: ↑

I will be honest with you. I trust God. He is good. He is righteous. If I resort to logic, I can not understand or justify hell fire and eternal torment. If I resort to logic
l also can not understand how shed blood forgives sin. That is why I do not try to explain God with human logic.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that we have to take things on faith as Reynolds says. The issue really is how do we best defend the faith of the bible when it is attacked?

-EDIT-

This seems to come down to how best to implement 2 Corinthians 10:3-5

Steven Yeadon · Jun 17, 2017

wTanksley said: ↑

Yes. You've made a great argument, but you've failed to ask "does my argument prove what I intended it to prove?" Go back through your argument looking at it as a conditionalist might, and you'll observe that a conditionalist could and would say all of the exact same things in order to "prove" that Satan deserves death. You entered your argument simply assuming that the proper punishment for evil is torment; you concluded that since Satan is evil, he deserves torment. A conditionalist enters this argument thinking that the proper punishment for evil is death, and should be followed by the proper remedy for evil, the complete obliteration of the evil.

A circular argument like this isn't a fallacy; it simply doesn't prove its own premise.

However, there is an interesting error in your claims.

What "seems obvious" to you isn't what the Bible says Satan does by nature. The Bible says he lies in order to murder. His purpose is killing, ending the lives of God's followers (and anyone else who gets in his way). What is the penalty for shedding man's blood? (Death.) There's absolutely no Biblical hint that Satan controls any kind of torture chamber; if eternal torment is true, it's true because God wills it; Satan has no say at all in that, and the Bible never holds him guilty of that.

I'm pretty sure none of this is Biblical. The Bible does seem to imply that Satan wanted to be alongside God, but not that he wanted to rule Him. Note that Satan's crime against Jesus was killing him -- a charge Christ brought directly against the religious leaders as those representing Satan and doing his work. The ones who tormented Him, the Romans, he forgave -- and the leader who sentenced him to torment seems to have been trying to get the Jews to stop asking for his death. This is the practical crime of Satan -- to desire and carry out murder, the willful killing of innocents for his own advantage. It's what he wants, and what he does.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see that my logic was circular in 1 and 3.

I think I can correct it by quoting the bible on what is and is not Satan's Kingdom. So far I know of Matthew 12:25-26, Ephesians 2:1-3, 1 John 5:19 which show that Satan's kingdom is the kingdom of a sinful world in rebellion against God. That is how Satan and his angels like things, despite the fact this means hell for all mankind despite the precious gift of Jesus Christ.

wTanksley · Jun 19, 2017

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

I think I can correct it by quoting the bible on what is and is not Satan's Kingdom.
Click to expand...

What I said was that 'a conditionalist could and would say all of the exact same things in order to "prove" that Satan deserves death.' This is what it means to have a circular argument; the conclusion depends entirely on the premise, and when the premise is replaced by a different one, the argument still works, but delivers the new premise as its conclusion. It's not enough to show that Satan's kingdom is the present world; rather, you need to show that the punishment for being of the present world is eternal torment in a different world (to use earthly terms, "exile").

Or something like that. I don't intend to restrict your argument, only to point out that it doesn't prove what you think it does.

So far I know of Matthew 12:25-26, Ephesians 2:1-3, 1 John 5:19 which show that Satan's kingdom is the kingdom of a sinful world in rebellion against God.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't deny that the present world IS in rebellion against God. Of course it is, we see that and the Bible doesn't disagree. But how does this lead to the conclusion that disagrees with what I've shown? Satan's motivation is to kill and murder, not to force God to torment forever. There's only three beings shown as being tormented forever in the Bible, and one of them is Satan.

Matt 12:25 is a counterfactual showing that because Jesus is working against Satan, it is silly for the Pharisees to think he's secretly on Satan's payroll. It doesn't show anything factually; it's a counterfactual.

Eph 2:1-3 doesn't say anything about this issue that I can see. However, Eph 1 says that nothing can ultimately be part of the cosmos that isn't united with God through Christ. There's no room for a secluded kingdom where Satan gets his way forever (even if he actually DID want people tormented forever).

1 John 5:19 shows that the present age is characterized by obedience to evil. This doesn't make your point -- again, it doesn't show how the problem is resolved. When John does tell us how the problem is resolved, he explains: "And the world with its lust is passing away, but the one who does God's will remains forever" (1 John 2:17). The contrast could not possibly be clearer: all of these things are NOT remaining forever, but rather are being removed from existence. God's creation will eventually be whole and united under God in Christ.

That is how Satan and his angels like things, despite the fact this means hell for all mankind despite the precious gift of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

This is true. But again, the question you're supposed to argue against is whether "this means hell for mankind" means "this means destruction body and soul" or "this means eternal torment." Either claim is compatible with your argument.

xlsdraw · Jun 19, 2017

Here's my layman conclusion. God loves man, all men. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Satan's deception caused the fall and flesh mortality. A life for a life. Satan sentenced to a tormented life sentence, to be served consecutively, for every soul he leads to destruction. Clearly, God is grieved over the fall.

The Biblicist · Jun 20, 2017

There are many serious problems to the conditional view. First, in the creation of man, the Hebrew plural is used translated as a signular "life" in Gen. 2:7. Prior to the Babylonian captivity the Hebrew plural did not refer to a plural of majesties but to three or more in contrast to the hebrew singular and dual. God created man in his own "image" and part of that image as a "spirit" being is a spiritual image as well as a triune image. Man was created with a plurality of lives (1) biological life; (2) spiritual life; (3) soul life. The Ephesians had both biological and soul life but their spirit was "dead" due to sin. It was their "spirit" that was "dead" due to sin because Jesus denies that what is born of the Spirit is "flesh" but rather what is born of the Spirit is "spirit." In Ephesians 2:1, 5 what is "quickened" is not biological death (the body) or the soul but the "spirit" of man. Hence, "death" does not equal annihilation with regard to the spiritual make up of man but equals separation from God. Their "spirit" was not non-existent as it was very active in the cause of Satan (Eph. 2:2-3; 4:18-19). Physical death cannot make spiritual life cease to exist (Mt. 10:28) and in context he is speaking to his disciples whose names were already written in heaven encouraging them not to fear men. At physical death the "spirit" of man does not return to dust but to God. It is only the body and biological life that ceases and returns to dust. Hence, the spirit of man continues to exist and Jesus claims it continues to exist at least up to the final judgment and only rendered usless in Gehenna rather than being annihilated in Gehenna. Death with regard to the spirit of man does not equal cessation and life with regard to the spirit of man does not equal existence. What conditionalists have done is take the biological death paradigm and applied it to the spirit paradigm. That is clearly an error and the foundational error upon which their whole system is erected.

Happy · Jun 21, 2017

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

I want to make the case that at least Satan and his angels deserve an eternity in hell.
Click to expand...

Simply put ~ (in brief)

God created two KINDS of Places ~ Heaven & Earth
God created two KINDS of Beings ~ (to occupy the Places as their estate) ~
The KINDS of Beings ~ typically called ~ Angels and manKIND
The Places (estates) for those Beings ~ (specifically equipped to sustain their needs)

The intent of Gods created Beings ~ specifically for Gods Pleasure
The fact of Gods created Beings ~ Their own Freewill to subject themselves TO Gods Pleasure or NOT.

Point Blank ~ God reveals what IS His Pleasures (ie what Pleases Him)
Point Blank ~ God reveals what IS NOT His Pleasure (ie that which does NOT Please Him)

Again ~ Each "KIND" of being (Angels & Mankind) has Freewill to agree or reject Pleasing God.

Point Blank ~ The RESULT for Choosing to please God is revealed.
Point Blank ~ The RESULT for Choosing to reject pleasing God is revealed.

Nothing is HIDDEN ~ No excuses ~ The facts are all revealed ~ Standing With or Standing Against and the consequences for each KIND of Beings Freewill decision.

Steven Yeadon said: ↑

I want to make the case that at least Satan and his angels deserve an eternity in hell.
Click to expand...

Personally I would not land on "deserving".
But more so; God IS TRUTH. Gods TRUTH has been revealed. Gods TRUTH WILL prevail.

When God created "Beings" for His Pleasure and "Places" for His "created" Beings ~
1) of course His desire was His created Beings WOULD choose subjection to Him
2) of course He KNEW some would reject Him
3) of course He PREPARED "Places" for (Angels & ManKIND) to occupy as their "estate"
4) of course He PREPARED "Places" for (Angels & ManKIND) to occupy as their "estate" WHO elected to CHOOSE Him
5) of course He PREPARED "Places" for (Angels & ManKIND) to occupy as their "estate" WHO elected to REJECT Him

How GREAT is OUR God? Immeasurable!

Angels are created "spirits" ~ spirits NEVER die ~ awesome!
Angels were created "spirits" with an immense amount of "knowledge" & "power" ~ awesome!

ManKIND is created "forms" (bodies) ~ with a (living soul), (ie life from God within their body) ~ with a natural spirit (ie a natural truth).

ALL "natural" things (in this case manKIND) ~ are born ignorant and MUST participate in a LEARNING process.
ALL "natural" things ~ are subject to DIE. (for mankind ~ that IS the BODY and the Natural spirit)

Awesome!

Why?

Because; It is manKIND ~ who is the recipient of Gods GREAT GRACE!

The faithful? Yes
The unfaithful? Yes

The faithful? How so?
~ Beauty on earth, Provisions on earth, equal opportunity to stand with God, blessings from God, gifts from God.
~ (Promises of eternal Life WITH God, IF they choose to stand with God)

The unfaithful? How so?
~ Beauty on earth, Provisions on earth, equal opportunity to stand with God, blessings from God, gifts from God.
~ (Promises of eternal SEPARATION FROM God, IF they choose to stand against God)

To the unfaithful ~
Gods GRACE ~ TO NEVER "quicken" (ie bring to life) their natural spirit to being born "a spiritual spirit". Awesome!
Why?
Because that means THEY WILL NOT EXIST forEVER!

Angels on the other hand is a different story ~
Angels WHO stand with or stand against God SHALL FOREVER exist.

And those (Angelic spirits) in standing against God SHALL occupy the "PLACE" Prepared for them.
Which is an eternal FIRE PIT, without the POWER to ascend OUT OF the Fire Pit.

So DO they DESERVE that? Actually it is simply beyond that.

Gods WILL will prevail, which is simply to say ~ ALL of Gods Word SHALL be FULFILLED ~
What is TRUTH and what is JUST ~ (according to God) ~ SHALL be ACCOMPLISHED

Praise God

Yeshua1 · Jun 21, 2017

Happy said: ↑

Simply put ~ (in brief)

God created two KINDS of Places ~ Heaven & Earth
God created two KINDS of Beings ~ (to occupy the Places as their estate) ~
The KINDS of Beings ~ typically called ~ Angels and manKIND
The Places (estates) for those Beings ~ (specifically equipped to sustain their needs)

The intent of Gods created Beings ~ specifically for Gods Pleasure
The fact of Gods created Beings ~ Their own Freewill to subject themselves TO Gods Pleasure or NOT.

Point Blank ~ God reveals what IS His Pleasures (ie what Pleases Him)
Point Blank ~ God reveals what IS NOT His Pleasure (ie that which does NOT Please Him)

Again ~ Each "KIND" of being (Angels & Mankind) has Freewill to agree or reject Pleasing God.

Point Blank ~ The RESULT for Choosing to please God is revealed.
Point Blank ~ The RESULT for Choosing to reject pleasing God is revealed.

Nothing is HIDDEN ~ No excuses ~ The facts are all revealed ~ Standing With or Standing Against and the consequences for each KIND of Beings Freewill decision.

Personally I would not land on "deserving".
But more so; God IS TRUTH. Gods TRUTH has been revealed. Gods TRUTH WILL prevail.

When God created "Beings" for His Pleasure and "Places" for His "created" Beings ~
1) of course His desire was His created Beings WOULD choose subjection to Him
2) of course He KNEW some would reject Him
3) of course He PREPARED "Places" for (Angels & ManKIND) to occupy as their "estate"
4) of course He PREPARED "Places" for (Angels & ManKIND) to occupy as their "estate" WHO elected to CHOOSE Him
5) of course He PREPARED "Places" for (Angels & ManKIND) to occupy as their "estate" WHO elected to REJECT Him

How GREAT is OUR God? Immeasurable!

Angels are created "spirits" ~ spirits NEVER die ~ awesome!
Angels were created "spirits" with an immense amount of "knowledge" & "power" ~ awesome!

ManKIND is created "forms" (bodies) ~ with a (living soul), (ie life from God within their body) ~ with a natural spirit (ie a natural truth).

ALL "natural" things (in this case manKIND) ~ are born ignorant and MUST participate in a LEARNING process.
ALL "natural" things ~ are subject to DIE. (for mankind ~ that IS the BODY and the Natural spirit)

Awesome!

Why?

Because; It is manKIND ~ who is the recipient of Gods GREAT GRACE!

The faithful? Yes
The unfaithful? Yes

The faithful? How so?
~ Beauty on earth, Provisions on earth, equal opportunity to stand with God, blessings from God, gifts from God.
~ (Promises of eternal Life WITH God, IF they choose to stand with God)

The unfaithful? How so?
~ Beauty on earth, Provisions on earth, equal opportunity to stand with God, blessings from God, gifts from God.
~ (Promises of eternal SEPARATION FROM God, IF they choose to stand against God)

To the unfaithful ~
Gods GRACE ~ TO NEVER "quicken" (ie bring to life) their natural spirit to being born "a spiritual spirit". Awesome!
Why?
Because that means THEY WILL NOT EXIST forEVER!

Angels on the other hand is a different story ~
Angels WHO stand with or stand against God SHALL FOREVER exist.

And those (Angelic spirits) in standing against God SHALL occupy the "PLACE" Prepared for them.
Which is an eternal FIRE PIT, without the POWER to ascend OUT OF the Fire Pit.

So DO they DESERVE that? Actually it is simply beyond that.

Gods WILL will prevail, which is simply to say ~ ALL of Gods Word SHALL be FULFILLED ~
What is TRUTH and what is JUST ~ (according to God) ~ SHALL be ACCOMPLISHED

Praise God

Click to expand...

BOTH the saved and lost will exist forever...

wTanksley · Jun 21, 2017

Yeshua1 said: ↑

BOTH the saved and lost will exist forever...
Click to expand...

The Bible does not teach that! It's your imagination only.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

Yeshua1 · Jun 21, 2017

wTanksley said: ↑

The Bible does not teach that! It's your imagination only.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Jesus held to it, so that is good enough for me!

Happy · Jun 21, 2017

Yeshua1 said: ↑

BOTH the saved and lost will exist forever...
Click to expand...

No.

The saved soul is a restored soul....and does not apply to a man in standing against God.
The quickened spirit is a born again spirit.....and does not apply to a man in standing against God.

A dead in Christ body is a justified and sanctified body....and does not apply to a man in standing against God.

The man who physically dies, in standing against God...
Does not receive a restored soul.
Does not receive a quickened spirit.
Does not receive a justified and sanctified body.

Life from his soul shall be departed and return to God WHO IS LIFE as all LIFE belongs to Him.
And such mans body and soul shall be destroyed in hell.

Matt.10

[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

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