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a Challenge For Some...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Nov 12, 2008.

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  1. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Certainly you flatter yourself.
    And if you're honest you'll admit that using more than one mv is necessary to even know what each one says due to it using words that you're not familiar with those either.

    It's not about familiarity of words, it's all about what those words mean in context.

    The depth of God's word goes far deeper than the modernist's diction could ever allow.:godisgood:
     
  2. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Who ever said what you quoted is worthy of the title "sentence"?

    To educate you a little, it's called dialogue exchange.

    No, that's what I SAID!

    You want the word of God placed into the realm of intellect to decide who is in authority when the Lord is after the inner man, not the man who thinks himself to be something when he is nothing.

    You think you're one of a select few that has mv's at his disposal.

    I've compared [Bible attack deleted] to the word of God. Everytime I find them lacking in description and eloquence. Eventually the wording does less of a good job of having within its power to express what the Bible already says.

    I didn't feel like wasting my time to have you rant and rail just like you did Baptist4life.

    Do you really think we're all so ignorant of your devices? Man, I saw right THROUGH your motive in the OP. All you've done is show how you were laying in wait to ensnare and twist other's words to fit your own devised scheme. Shame on you!
     
  3. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Thank you for the lesson on pride.
     
  4. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I see that his motives weren't honorable at all! I answered his challenge, did quite well in fact, and he twists it to look like HE was giving me the "benefit of the doubt" and being the "nice guy"! Rippon, I'm NOT KJVO, but Salamander is absolutely right about understanding the MV's as well. I have several friends who use MV's, and they do NOT understand every word in them either!
     
  5. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Baptist4life did very well (I doubt I'd have done any better), but as he said: "that really wasn't too difficult". Now scored again per your request ("I would be interested in how the rest of you think I did") and edited for space and categorization --

    Full-credit (8)
    I found no reason why "haste" can't mean in a hurry here (that is the usual meaning).​


    Partial-credit (2)
    The word "judgement" (in singular or plural) is not addressed in either of your answers. ​


    No-credit (3)
    In Psalm 106:20a they did not simply 'give up' (as in forfeit, concede, capitulate), but rather "glory" was exchanged (or substituted, traded, replaced) for something else.

    In your answer to Psalm 119:96 the phrase "end of all perfection" doesn't mean all things are 'terrible', but rather that ultimately futile are the pinnacles of human effort; the second part doesn't indicate that God is 'still in control' (although it is safe to say He always is) but rather His commands are infinite (comprehensive, complete, boundless).

    In Psalm 119:123 you make no attempt to define "mine eyes fail" as weariness (whether emotionally, spiritually, psychologically); next, His "salvation" (deliverance, victory, preservation would be acceptable) is not the same as 'righteousness'; and third, "word" isn't necessarily referring to the holy writ (if that's what you were intended by capitalizing 'Word') but rather simply His promises (also sayings, declarations, announcements).​


    Although my evaluation is not exactly the same as Rippon's score (mine is slightly more favorable toward you), I think he was fair. Most importantly, we agree that you did NOT correctly interpret the KJV English at Psalms 119:96 & 123.
     
    #45 franklinmonroe, Nov 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2008
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    That's certainly not the point.Of course there many be some words in modern versions which people would have to look up.However,are you denying the obvious?The KJV has an overwhelming amount of obsolete words and phrases.Most English dictionaries of the last century and a half would not be of any help.

    There's a vast contrast between modern versions and the KJV regarding unrecognizable renderings.The KJV family has an abundance of the latter.
     
  7. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    What IS your point?? I stated that those of us who use the KJV have probably used it for YEARS and understand it very well. Those that do not are free to use an MV if they like.

    [/QUOTE]
    Originally Posted by franklinmonroe

    Although my evaluation is not exactly the same as Rippon's score (mine is slightly more favorable toward you), I think he was fair. Most importantly, we agree that you did NOT correctly interpret the KJV English at Psalms 119:96 & 123.[/QUOTE]




    I think the biggest problem is not that I did not understand the words, but that I wasn't clear enough for you in my rephrasing them. I can assure you I understood the passages, as I believe most KJV users do.
     
  8. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    BFL, You have earned a perfect score. :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
     
  9. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    That's it, you have no point.

    We understand the KJB and not anyone understands the mv's all the way.:laugh:
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Well, that makes three of you who think so (aside from BFL himself).Your scoring system is suspect however.

    Let's see.Do you want to start a new translation?How about naming it the KJV-Equivaleny Translation Based On Faulty Principles?.
     
    #50 Rippon, Nov 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2008
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I notice that you didn't say that you understand the KJV "all the way".If you really have all that confidence you'd have taken the challenge right away. But you had some timidity about undertaking the task.At least BFL didn't flinch.

    For the sake of clarity we should particularize things.Instead of the generalized "MV's".Get specific and name one.We already know the KJV model you use is the 1769.

    So let's have a cage match between say the TNIV and the Blayner Edition.Who wants to ref?
     
  12. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Rippon, how about you defining THESE NIV words WITHOUT looking them up:


    Below is a sampling of difficult words found in the New International Version.

    abashed, abominable, abutted, acclaim, adder, adhere, admonishing, advocate, alcove, algum, allocate, allots, ally, aloes, appease, ardent, armlets, arrayed, astir, atonement, awl, banishment, battlements, behemoth, belial, bereaves, betrothed, bier, blighted, booty, brayed, breaching, breakers, buffeted, burnished, calamus, capital (not a city), carnelian, carrion, centurions, chasm, chronic, chrysolite, cistern, citadel, citron, clefts, cohorts, colonnades, complacency, coney, concession, congealed, conjure, contrite, convocations, crest, cors, curds, dandled, dappled, debauchery, decimated, deluged, denarii, depose, derides, despoil, dire,dispossess, disrepute, dissipation, distill, dissuade, divination, dragnet, dropsy, duplicity, earthenware, ebony, emasculate, emission, encroach, enmity, enthralled, entreaty, ephod, epicurean, ewe, excrement, exodus, factions, felled, festal, fettered, figurehead, filigree, flagstaff, fomenting, forded, fowler, gadfly, galled, gird, gauntness, gecko, gloating, goiim, harrowing, haunt, hearld, henna, homers, hoopoe, ignoble, impaled, implore, incur, indignant, insatiable, insolence, intact, invoked, jambs, joists, jowls, lairs, lamentation, leviathan, libations, loins, magi, manifold, maritime, mattocks, maxims, mina, misdemeanor, mother-of-pearl, mustering, myrtles, naive, naught, Negev, Nephilim, nettles, nocturnal, nomad, notorious, Nubians, oblivion, obsolete, odious, offal, omer, oracles, overweening, parapet, parchments, pavilion, peals (noun, not the verb), perjurers, perpetuate, pestilence, pinions, phylacteries, plumage, pomp, porphyry, portent, potsherd, proconsul, propriety, poultice, Praetorium, pretext, profligate, promiscuity, provincial, providence, qualm, quarries, quivers (noun, not verb), ramparts, ransacked, ratified, ravish, rabble, rawboned, relish (not for hotdogs), recoils, recount, refrain, relent, rend, reposes, reprimanded, reputed, retinue, retorted, retribution, rifts, roebucks, rue, sachet, satraps, sated, shipwrights, siegeworks, sinews, sistrums, sledges, smelted, somber, soothsayer, sovereignty, spelt, stadia, stench, stipulation, sullen, tamarisk, tanner, temperate, tether, tetrarch, terebinth, thresher, throes, thronged, tiaras, tinder, tracts, transcends, tresses, turbulent, tyrannical, unscathed, unrelenting, usury, vassal, vaunts, vehemently, verdant, vexed, wadi, wanton, warranted, wield, winnowing and wrenched.


    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NIV/vt.htm



    As they say............"remove the beam from your own eye".............
     
    #52 Baptist4life, Nov 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2008
  13. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I have to say, the KJV test was easier than the NIV. I don't know what a lot of those words on the NIV list mean. :laugh:
     
  14. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Exactly my point! Game, set, match!:thumbs:
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    As you can see I winnowed your list down to words that are not difficult at all.I have retained a majority of the words.If you think they are difficult--what does that indicate about the thousands more which are present in the KJV?

    If you think you have established that the KJV family is less difficult than the NIV -- your effort is laughable.In the KJV's much of the phraseology is obsolete.Lines,sentences and entire verses are shrouded in antique forms.I haven't been addressing words in isolation.
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Hmm,I tried in my last post to feature particular words.I'll try again.

    abashed, abominable, acclaim, adhere, admonishing, advocate, alcove, allocate, allots, ally, aloes, appease, ardent, arrayed, astir, atonement, banishment, behemoth, bereaves, betrothed, bier, blighted, booty, brayed, breaching, breakers, buffeted, burnished, capital (not a city),centurions, chasm, chronic, citadel, clefts, cohorts, colonnades, complacency, concession, congealed, conjure, contrite, convocations, crest, curds,debauchery, decimated, deluged, depose, derides, despoil, dire,dispossess, disrepute, dissipation, distill, dissuade, divination, dragnet, duplicity, ebony, emasculate, emission, encroach, enmity, enthralled, entreaty, epicurean, ewe, excrement, exodus, factions, fettered, figurehead, fomenting, forded, fowler, gadfly, galled, gauntness, gecko, gloating, harrowing, haunt, hearld[did you mean "herald"?] ignoble, impaled, implore, incur, indignant, insatiable, insolence, intact, invoked, jowls, lairs, lamentation, leviathan, libations, manifold, maritime, maxims, misdemeanor, mustering, naive, naught, Negev, nocturnal, nomad, notorious, Nubians, oblivion, obsolete, odious, oracles, parchments, pavilion, peals (noun, not the verb), perjurers, perpetuate, pestilence, plumage, pomp, portent, proconsul, propriety, pretext, profligate, promiscuity, provincial, providence, qualm, quarries, quivers (noun, not verb), ramparts, ransacked, ratified, ravish, rabble, relish (not for hotdogs), recoils, recount, refrain, relent, rend, reposes, reprimanded, reputed, retinue, retorted, retribution, rifts, rue, sachet, satraps, sated, sinews, sistrums, sledges, smelted, somber, soothsayer, sovereignty, spelt, stadia, stench, stipulation, sullen, tanner, temperate, tether, thresher, throes, thronged, tiaras, tinder, tracts, transcends, tresses, turbulent, tyrannical, unscathed, unrelenting, usury, vassal, vaunts, vehemently, verdant, vexed, wadi, wanton, warranted, wield, winnowing and wrenched.

    I would say that a lot of these words are in current usage in standard English.
     
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Amy,I'm surprised at your comment.You don't realize that all of these words and thousands of legimately obsolete words are found in the KJV's?
     
  18. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    See?

    I knew this was going to be fun to watch!

    Ed
     
  19. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    I'm done with this thread. You cannot argue, nor do I wish to, with someone who's mind is already made up. The NIV and other MV's have just as much "baggage" as does the KJV. I repeat, I believe Rippon's "beef" is with the KJVO's, and he takes it out on the KJV. Get over it, and use what version you like.
     
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Yes, I do. But all I meant was that in comparison, you're list of words was easier than the NIV words. That's all. I didn't realize the NIV has so many words in it that I don't know. I thought I was smarter than that! :laugh:
     
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