1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

A Few Controversial Scriptures Examined

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Protestant, Jul 3, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    106
    Part 29: Mark of the Beast

    Over the centuries much controversy has swirled around a valid, practical explanation of Rev. 13:16-17:

    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Thus far, it has been proven the Roman Church has decreed it a serious criminal offense for any of its citizens or clergy to conduct any type of trade or commerce with declared ‘heretics.’

    The next question to be proven is that of ‘the mark of the Beast.’

    If the ‘Beast’ consists of the clerical members and lay supporters of the Roman Catholic Church, with the Pope as its head, as the ‘heretics’ insisted, then one should expect to find this ‘Beast’ somehow connected to giving ‘the mark.’

    To many, the ‘mark’ is understood to be literal, irreversible branding. An excellent summation of the history of human branding with literal, physical marks on the skin can be reviewed here.

    By using this reasoning, the Roman Catholic Church can, for many, be dismissed as that false Church who obeys the ‘Beast’ depicted in the Revelation, though she does fulfill numerous other unlikely prophecies.

    However, both the pre-Reformation and Reformation Protestant ‘heretics’, having in-depth knowledge of the teachings of the Roman Church, understood the true meaning of ‘the mark.’

    Although a simple non-literal, spiritual explanation exists, such as: it is with the mind that one begins to believe and agree with the doctrines and teachings of the Roman Church and it is with the right hand that one begins to put into practice what one believes; (or it is with the right hand that one shakes the hand of those with whom they are in agreement), a much more exact fulfillment of the prophecy exists.

    To solve this solvable mystery, the diligent truth seeker must first examine official Roman Catholic Church documents which detail the practices and meaning of several essential rituals particular to their Church.

    Let’s begin examining the clues by reviewing the Douay-Rheims translation of Rev. 13:16-17:

    And he shall make all, both little and great, rich and poor, freemen and bondmen, to have a character in their right hand, or on their foreheads. And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Interestingly, of all the translations found on biblehub.com, this is the only translation which translates mark as character.

    Does the Roman Catholic Church claim to bestow a character on its adherents, be they whatever age, gender, work profession or social status?

    It is without controversy that the Council of Trent is considered one of the foremost authoritative councils whose decrees are foundational to the teachings and doctrines of the Roman Church.

    THE COUNCIL OF TRENT

    Session VII - Celebrated on the third day of March 1547, under Pope Paul III

    Canon 9. If anyone says that in three sacraments, namely, baptism, confirmation and [holy] order, there is not imprinted on the soul a character, that is, a certain spiritual and indelible mark, by reason of which they cannot be repeated, let him be anathema.

    This doctrinal decree is held to this very day.

    Catechism of the Catholic Church (1995):

    1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

    1304 Like Baptism which it completes, Confirmation is given only once, for it too imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual mark, the “character,” which is the sign that Jesus Christ has marked a Christian with the seal of his Spirit by clothing him with power from on high so that he may be his witness.


    VII. THE EFFECTS OF THE SACRAMENT OF HOLY ORDERS

    The indelible character

    1581 This sacrament configures the recipient to Christ by a special grace of the Holy Spirit, so that he may serve as Christ's instrument for his Church. By ordination one is enabled to act as a representative of Christ, Head of the Church, in his triple office of priest, prophet, and king.

    1582 As in the case of Baptism and Confirmation this share in Christ's office is granted once for all. The sacrament of Holy Orders, like the other two, confers an indelible spiritual character and cannot be repeated or conferred temporarily.

    NEXT: This mark/character is given by the right hand of a Roman Catholic clergyman tracing the sign of the cross on the recipient’s forehead or right hand.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    16,353
    Likes Received:
    1,464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Welcome back
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    29
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    NO WINNER , a pile of dung! "Mother of All harlots and the abominations of the earth" You are a harlot against the scriptures like your mother. You are an offspring of the harlotry of the Vatican hierarchy .

    666 is the number of a man that is....... the carbon number of a man. Plants have a carbon number, animals have their carbon number. The Mark of the Beast will be attach to that the Carbon of the DNA .This is a nit wit post with so many flaws, that it can only come from a mind that has become filled with vile hatred.
    Please do the Confessing of 1John 4 in which Gabriel the Angel of God spoke and Elisabeth , once filled with the Holy Spirit exclaimed.

    The Elect ones of the Roman Church were given personally ,a charge from Paul to greet and honor Mary , because she labored for us all. This he did after her Assumption at Christ's ascension. He sets her up as a Visitor of souls to the Romans just as she was established by God from the beginning. She is sent to those who are to be kin ( the offspring of Abraham), they are through a grafting in. as the house of God we have direct access to Jacobs Ladder. She visits souls , and those she visits rejoice in her visits as Elisabeth did and their souls leap for joy. The Aha Gotcha moment is on you, because the church of Rome , has a harlot mother who stands before it, and has produced harlots and the Mother of Christ who produces offspring in the image of Christ. You would know that if she was your mother.
    Romans 16:6-16 King James Version (KJV)
    6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.

    This is the ONLY Hebrew women mentioned by name in this letter . The correct spelling is "Myriam." Myriam represents the Hebrew Old Testament version of Mary's name. In Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus, Joseph and Mary, Mary is called Maryam. But in the Greek text, for some reason it is spelled in the Hebrew . While all other names translated were put in the Greek form. In translating to English, it looses it's identity as a Hebrew woman.
    Romans 16:6.
    Commentary:
    How far Mary had toiled much for the Romans (εἰς ὑμᾶς), was as well known to the readers and to the apostle himself, who awards to her on that account the salutation of acknowledgment and commendation.But this was established after she was taken up. I am not going to reveal here the scriptures which support her Assumption. That would be to cast pearl before swine , but those chosen to know are blessed.

    In the Song of Songs,which is actually God's song because any student of scripture knows all scripture is God breathed. Therefore , the MYSTICAL language of it, is actually Solomon being inspired by God to write the letter for God's greatest love,The Elect of Israel and those grafted into Israel. His Elect Bride from the first to know, to the last, THE END TIME ELECT, are being addressed
    In that Song. Also , the Song includes the Elect mother to Emmanuel ( God with us) it is revealed who labored for us.
    Song of Solomon 8:
    5Who is this coming up from the wilderness, leaning on her beloved?( up out of the wilderness of false teachings in denominations. From the influence of the pharisees of Christ's time to now.)
    Song Continued:
    I roused you under the apple tree ( The apple tree is Israel in which we the Chosen have been awakened to the faith of the one true God and grafted into); there your mother conceived you, there she travailed and brought you forth. (The mother here is Mother Mary who under that Tree , Israel, labored for all when she brought forth the Messiah and raised Him in her came forth the birth of all to be born of God's Spirit)

    6Set me as a seal over your heart, as a seal upon your arm. For love is as strong as death, its jealousy as unrelenting as Sheol. Its sparks are fiery flames, the fiercest blaze of all.…

    Anyway this will elude your corrupt mind. But she is the seal upon believers' hearts and upon our arms as she was upon Christ's heart in love and upon his arm because they walked together through life.

    Conclusion: The Roman Church was given her as their mother , and she has preserved a certain of Rome from corruption. You would know nothing about that . But for sure many will feel Christ's wrath for their rejecting her as Mother. This was sealed at the cross with John. "Man behold thy Mother, WOMAN behold thy son". Christ said WOMAN because He is pointing the beginning , Genesis, when the prophesied promised Woman would come and she would become the Mother to all the Living= those born again in Christ. After He said what He said John ,Christ concluded "it is completion".

    The fullness of the the teachings of Christ are capped off by giving the Church His Mother. That is clear. Many haters will say, NOOOO , Christ only gave her to John. Really? All those of the Body of Christ are all like minded.
    1 Peter 3:8
    8Finally, all of you, be like-minded and sympathetic, love as brothers, be tender-hearted and humble.

    Philippians 2:
    One in Christ
    1Therefore if you have any encouragement in Christ, if any comfort from His love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being of one mind, having the same love, being united in spirit and purpose. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or empty pride, but in humility consider others more important than yourselves.…
     
    #3 OfLivingWaters, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Rockson

    Rockson Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2018
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There's probably been about 666 different ideas of just what 666 means. I'd never discourage the study of it but oh I've heard so many different ideas. Still think it might be something we don't quite see and understand clearly yet.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    29
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Briefly:

    Sunday Sacredness
    Immortal soul or spirit theology
    Eternal torment in hellfire
    Sin (1 John 3:4; Exodus 20:1-17, see vs 8-11) as Righteousness (ie self-righteousness)
    Jesus came in Unfallen flesh of mankind
    Scapegoat of Leviticus 16 is Jesus
    Eating unclean (Lev, Deut, Acts, etc) flesh is not sin
    Cessationist (gifts of the Holy Ghost)
    Secret Rapture
    Living Human beings on earth during the Millennium
    Literalizes the 7 Trumpets
    Part futurist
    Jesus Christ ascended from Olivet directly to the Most Holy Place above
    Its ok to drink 'enough' alcohol
    Michael archangel is just a created being

    AWHN - Bible - Michael Wikipedia.jpg

    ... and so on, thus in short, Jesuit doctrine.
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    9,810
    Likes Received:
    156
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The "marka the beast" will be some kinda implantable microchip that'll hold all the person's financial records & personal info. People will be paid by having their chip scanned & loaded with the new intel. people will make purchases by having their chip scanned & the amount of purchase deducted from the balance. it'll replace cash and cards, being touted as "theft-proof, loss-proof". It'll be made compulsory after the "rapture" removes most opposition to it by Christians who will know what it is. That's why those times will be so hard for "trib saints" who'll hafta depend on a "black market" to stay alive. (Many won't make it, or be killed by the "beast's" security force.)

    The tech already exists for such a chip. Several firms have offered it to their employees to replace cards for door-unlockers, but almost all have refused it, believing it to be the "marka the beast", Christians or not. This opposition by non-Christians will fade over time.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    9,810
    Likes Received:
    156
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Mariolatry is simply the continuation of the mystery, Babylon religion invented by Nimrod & Semiramis, with men replacing Semiramis with Mary as "queena hevvin".

    The RCC, with its barge load of man-made false doctrines, is the harlot of Rev. 17, which all-but-outright names Rome as the harlot.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    What a lot of hooey!!! I read Dave's Hunts book and it is easily debunked. Here is just some of what can be found easily if you take the time to look:

    Some anti-Catholics claim the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon of Revelation 17 and 18. Dave Hunt, in his 1994 book, A Woman Rides the Beast, presents nine arguments to try to prove this. His claims are a useful summary of those commonly used by Fundamentalists, and an examination of them shows why they don’t work.

    #1: Seven Hills
    Hunt argues that the Whore “is a city built on seven hills,” which he identifies as the seven hills of ancient Rome. This argument is based on Revelation 17:9, which states that the woman sits on seven mountains.

    The Greek word in this passage is horos. Of the sixty-five occurrences of this word in the New Testament, only three are rendered “hill” by the King James Version. The remaining sixty-two are translated as “mountain” or “mount.” Modern Bibles have similar ratios. If the passage states that the Whore sits on “seven mountains,” it could refer to anything. Mountains are common biblical symbols, often symbolizing whole kingdoms (see Ps. 68:15; Dan. 2:35; Amos 4:1, 6:1; Obad. 8–21). The Whore’s seven mountains might be seven kingdoms she reigns over, or seven kingdoms with which she has something in common.

    The number seven may be symbolic also, for it often represents completeness in the Bible. If so, the seven mountains might signify that the Whore reigns over all earth’s kingdoms.

    Even if we accept that the word horos should be translated literally as “hill” in this passage, it still does not narrow us down to Rome. Other cities are known for having been built on seven hills as well.

    Even if we grant that the reference is to Rome, which Rome are we talking about—pagan Rome or Christian Rome? As we will see, ancient, pagan Rome fits all of Hunt’s criteria as well as, or better than, Rome during the Christian centuries.

    Now bring in the distinction between Rome and Vatican City—the city where the Catholic Church is headquartered—and Hunt’s claim becomes less plausible. Vatican City is not built on seven hills, but only one: Vatican Hill, which is not one of the seven upon which ancient Rome was built. Those hills are on the east side of the Tiber river; Vatican Hill is on the west.

    #2: “Babylon”—What’s in a Name?
    Hunt notes that the Whore will be a city “known as Babylon.” This is based on Revelation 17:5, which says that her name is “Babylon the Great.”

    The phrase “Babylon the great” (Greek: Babulon a megala) occurs five times in Revelation (14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2, and 18:21). Light is shed on its meaning when one notices that Babylon is referred to as “the great city” seven times in the book (16:19, 17:18; 18:10, 16, 18, 19, 21). Other than these, there is only one reference to “the great city.” That passage is 11:8, which states that the bodies of God’s two witnesses “will lie in the street of the great city, which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified [emphasis added].”

    “The great city” is symbolically called Sodom, a reference to Jerusalem, symbolically called “Sodom” in the Old Testament (see Isa. 1:10; Ezek. 16:1–3, 46–56). We also know Jerusalem is the “the great city” of Revelation 11:8 because the verse says it was “where [the] Lord was crucified.”

    Revelation consistently speaks as if there were only one “great city” (“the great city”), suggesting that the great city of 11:8 is the same as the great city mentioned in the other seven texts—Babylon. Additional evidence for the identity of the two is the fact that both are symbolically named after great Old Testament enemies of the faith: Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon.

    This suggests that Babylon the great may be Jerusalem, not Rome. Many Protestant and Catholic commentators have adopted this interpretation. On the other hand, early Church Fathers often referred to Rome as “Babylon,” but every reference was to pagan Rome, which martyred Christians.

    #3: Commits Fornication
    Hunt tells us, “The woman is called a ‘whore’ (verse 1), with whom earthly kings ‘have committed fornication’ (verse 2). Against only two cities could such a charge be made: Jerusalem and Rome.”

    Here Hunt admits that the prophets often referred to Jerusalem as a spiritual whore, suggesting that the Whore might be apostate Jerusalem. Ancient, pagan Rome also fits the description, since through the cult of emperor worship it also committed spiritual fornication with “the kings of the earth” (those nations it conquered).

    To identify the Whore as Vatican City, Hunt interprets the fornication as alleged “unholy alliances” forged between Vatican City and other nations, but he fails to cite any reasons why the Vatican’s diplomatic relations with other nations are “unholy.”

    He also confuses Vatican City with the city of Rome, and he neglects the fact that pagan Rome had “unholy alliances” with the kingdoms it governed (unholy because they were built on paganism and emperor worship).

    #4: Clothed in Purple and Red
    Hunt states, “She [the Whore] is clothed in ‘purple and scarlet’ (verse 4), the colors of the Catholic clergy.” He then cites the Catholic Encyclopedia to show that bishops wear certain purple vestments and cardinals wear certain red vestments.

    Hunt ignores the obvious symbolic meaning of the colors. Purple symbolizes repentance, and red honors the blood of Christ and the Christian martyrs.

    Hunt neglects to remind his readers that God commanded that scarlet yarn and wool be used in liturgical ceremonies (Lev. 14:4, 6, 49–52; Num. 19:6), and that God commanded that the priests’ vestments be made with purple and scarlet yarn (Ex. 28:4–8, 15, 33; 39:1–8, 24, 29).

    #5: Possesses Great Wealth
    Hunt states, “[The Whore’s] incredible wealth next caught John’s eye. She was ‘decked with gold and precious stones and pearls . . . ’ [Rev. 17:4].” The problem is that, regardless of what it had in the past, the modern Vatican is not fantastically wealthy. In fact, it has run a budget deficit in most recent years and has an annual budget only around the size of that of the Archdiocese of Chicago. Furthermore, wealth was much more in character with pagan Rome or apostate Jerusalem, both key economic centers.
     
  9. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    (continued)

    #6: A Golden Cup
    Hunt states that the Whore “has ‘a golden cup [chalice] in her hand, full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.’” This is another reference to Revelation 17:4. Then he states that the “Church is known for its many thousands of gold chalices around the world.”

    To make the Whore’s gold cup suggestive of the Eucharistic chalice, Hunt inserts the word “chalice” in square brackets, though the Greek word here is the ordinary word for cup (potarion), which appears thirty-three times in the New Testament and is always translated “cup.”

    He ignores the fact that the Catholic chalice is used in the celebration of the Lord’s Supper—a ritual commanded by Christ (Luke 22:19–20; 1 Cor. 11:24–25); he ignores the fact that the majority of Eucharistic chalices Catholics use are not made out of gold, but other materials, such as brass, silver, glass, and even earthenware; he ignores the fact that gold liturgical vessels and utensils have been part of the true religion ever since ancient Israel—again at the command of God (Ex. 25:38–40, 37:23–24; Num. 31:50–51; 2 Chron. 24:14); and he again uses a literal interpretation, according to which the Whore’s cup is not a single symbol applying to the city of Rome, but a collection of many literal cups used in cities throughout the world. But Revelation tells us that it’s the cup of God’s wrath that is given to the Whore (Rev. 14:10; cf. Rev. 18:6). This has nothing to do with Eucharistic chalices.

    #7: The Mother of Harlots
    Now for Hunt’s most hilarious argument: “John’s attention is next drawn to the inscription on the woman’s forehead: ‘THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH’ (verse 5, [Hunt’s emphasis]). Sadly enough, the Roman Catholic Church fits that description as precisely as she fits the others. Much of the cause is due to the unbiblical doctrine of priestly celibacy,” which has “made sinners of the clergy and harlots out of those with whom they secretly cohabit.”

    Priestly celibacy is not a doctrine but a discipline—a discipline in the Latin Rite of the Church—and even this rite has not always been mandatory. This discipline can scarcely be unbiblical, since Hunt himself says, “The great apostle Paul was a celibate and recommended that life to others who wanted to devote themselves fully to serving Christ.”

    Hunt has again lurched to an absurdly literal interpretation. He should interpret the harlotry of the Whore’s daughters as the same as their mother’s, which is why she is called their mother in the first place. This would make it spiritual or political fornication or the persecution of Christian martyrs (see Rev. 17:2, 6, 18:6). Instead, Hunt gives the interpretation of the daughters as literal, earthly prostitutes committing literal, earthly fornication.

    If Hunt did not have a fixation on the King James Version, he would notice another point that identifies the daughters’ harlotries with that of their mother: The same Greek word (porna) is used for both mother and daughters. The King James Version translates this word as “whore” whenever it refers to the mother, but as “harlot” when it refers to the daughters. Modern translations render it consistently. John sees the “great harlot” (Rev. 17:1, 15, 16; 19:2) who is “the mother of harlots” (17:5). The harlotries of the daughters must be the same as the mother’s, which Hunt admits is not literal sex!

    #8: Sheds the Blood of Saints
    Hunt states, “John next notices that the woman is drunk—not with alcohol but with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus . . . [cf. verse 6].” He then advances charges of brutality and killing by the Inquisitions, supposed forced conversions of nations, and even the Nazi holocaust.

    This section of the book abounds with historical errors, not the least of which is his implication that the Church endorses the forced conversion of nations. The Church condemned forced conversions as early as the third century, and has formally condemned them on repeated occasions, as in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 160, 1738, 1782, 2106–7).

    But pagan Rome and apostate Jerusalem do fit the description of a city drunk with the blood of saints and the martyrs of Jesus. And since they were notorious persecutors of Christians, the original audience would have automatically thought of one of these two as the city that persecutes Christians, not an undreamed-of Christian Rome that was centuries in the future.

    #9: Reigns over Kings
    For his last argument, Hunt states, “Finally, the angel reveals that the woman ‘is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth’ (verse 18). Is there such a city? Yes, and again only one: Vatican City.”

    This is a joke. Vatican City has no power over other nations; it certainly does not reign over them. In fact, the Vatican’s very existence has been threatened in the past two centuries by Italian nationalism.

    Hunt appeals to power the popes once had over Christian political rulers, but at that time there was no Vatican City. The Vatican only became a separate city in 1929.

    The modern city of Rome is only a very minor political force. If the reign is a literal, political one, then pagan Rome fulfills the requirement far better than Christian Rome ever did.
     
  10. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    #10 Walter, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,453
    Likes Received:
    768
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Once you get hooked on Hislop's false philology, it's apparently hard to break the habit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,453
    Likes Received:
    768
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It has long been interesting to me how little humility some folks have when attempting to decode the Bible's eschatology, insisting that a certain verse absolutely has to mean something, usually a new bit of technology that must be squeezed into the apocalyptic literature.
     
  13. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    106
    Part 30: This indelible mark/character is given by the right hand of a Roman Catholic clergyman tracing the sign of the cross on the recipient’s forehead or right hand.

    How the Mark/Character is given in Baptism:

    The sign of the cross, on the threshold of the celebration, marks with the imprint of Christ the one who is going to belong to him……” (Catechism of Catholic Church [CCC] # 1235).

    “The anointing with sacred chrism, perfumed oil consecrated by the bishop…… (CCC # 1241).

    “The Sign of the Cross is made on the forehead and breast [by the priest], as a sign that the Christian belongs to the crucified Savior.” (The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, 1977, Tan Books & Publishers, “Ceremonies of Baptism,” p. 104; along with the necessary official Imprimatur.)

    How the Mark/Character is given in Confirmation:

    “In the Latin rite, the sacrament of Confirmation is conferred through the anointing with chrism on the forehead, which is done by the laying on of the hand [of the bishop] and through the words, ‘Be sealed with the Gift of the Holy Spirit.’” (CCC # 1300).

    Confirmation: The sacrament though which grace is bestowed on baptized persons to strengthen them in Christian faith. It increases sanctifying grace and imprints a lasting character or mark on the soul. Through the anointing with chrism on the forehead of the person, the Holy Ghost is received to make one a strong and perfect Christian and a soldier of Christ. The ordinary minister of this sacrament is the bishop who signs the person with chrism in the Sign of the Cross on the forehead.” (Concise Catholic Dictionary, The Bruce Publishing Company, 1944; along with the necessary Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.)

    The Mark/Character is given in the rite of ordination of Holy Orders:


    “The Anointing of Hands
    After the first verse of the hymn the bishop rises and sits on the faldstool (wearing the mitre). He removes hisgloves but puts the episcopal ring back on his finger. The gremiale is placed over his knees. The ordained come forward and one by one kneel before the bishop. He then takes the oil of catechumens and anoints both of their hands which they hold together palms upward. First he anoints the inside of the hands, tracing a cross from the thumb of the right hand to the index finger of the left, and from the thumb of the left hand to the index finger of the right. Next he anoints the entire palms. He says as he performs the anointings:

    May it please you, O Lord, to consecrate and sanctify these hands by this anointing and our blessing.
    All: Amen.
    And having made the sign of the cross over the hands of the ordained he continues:
    That whatever they bless may be blessed, and whatever they consecrate may be consecrated in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (source).

    The Sign of the Cross identifies one’s adherence to the Roman Catholic Church:


    “The Catholic makes confession of his faith most especially by the sign of the holy cross. By it he lets men know that he makes profession of belonging to the religion of the crucified Savior. To Jews and Turks the cross is an object of hatred and contempt; Protestants, too, pay no honor to the holy cross, though there are indeed some of them who, in the present day, have learned the practice from the children of the Church. The sign of the cross is thus the peculiar property of Catholics all the world over. It is a custom so ancient that it is generally believed to have been introduced by the apostles.

    “The sign of the cross is made by touching with the outstretched fingers of the right hand first the forehead, then the centre of the breast, then the left, and finally, the right shoulder, saying meanwhile the words, ‘In the name of the Father (touch forehead), and of the Son (touch breast), and of the Holy Ghost (touch left and right shoulders), Amen” (The Catechism Explained: An Exhaustive Exposition of the Christian Religion, With Special Reference to the Present State of Society and the Spirit of the Age, Edited by Rev. Richard F. Clarke, S.J; Benziger Brothers, Printers to the Holy Apostolic See, 9th edition, p. 107).

    NEXT: The abomination of desolation.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    24,878
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Mystery Babylon, The Mother of Harlots

    Mystery Babylon is the culmination, the Manifesto the coming "Constitution" of the society of Global elitists (One World Government).

    “Secular humanism, or simply humanism, is a philosophy or life stance that embraces human reason, ethics, and philosophical naturalism while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience, and superstition as the basis of morality and decision making.[1][2][3][4]

    Secular humanism posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or a god. It does not, however, assume that humans are either inherently good or evil, nor does it present humans as being superior to nature. Rather, the humanist life stance emphasizes the unique responsibility facing humanity and the ethical consequences of human decisions. Fundamental to the concept of secular humanism is the strongly held viewpoint that ideology—be it religious or political—must be thoroughly examined by each individual and not simply accepted or rejected on faith. Along with this, an essential part of secular humanism is a continually adapting search for truth, primarily through science and philosophy. Many secular humanists derive their moral codes from a philosophy of utilitarianism, ethical naturalism, or evolutionary ethics, and some advocate a science of morality. “

    Secular humanism - Wikipedia

    Secular humanism provides freedom from religion and in America it gave birth to the sexual revolution in the 1960’s and 70’s aided by the creation of “The Pill” and other forms of contraception.

    In 1973 came the legislation of legalized murder (Abortion) the Rowe v. Wade decision providing a secret medical procedure to eliminate the result of a contraceptive failure and/or an unwanted pregnancy.

    Thus Mystery Babylon is the biblical metaphor of Global Secular Humanism of the elite, the mother of all those whom she has granted permission to commit porneia, male or female. Her basis of morality the Mystery of Iniquity.

    A mystery because it has not been realized and revealed until the sexual revolution of the 1960’s 70’s.
     
    #14 HankD, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    106
    I have been asked to respond to comments.

    I do not wish to respond to those who, like immature, ignorant children, rant and rave, name-calling, yet cannot give a cohesive answer to the undisputed facts of history, as well as documented Roman Catholic doctrine and practices. Nor can they stay on topic, but in a wildly deranged manner, immediately switch topics to those which they hold precious to their holy breasts.

    On the other hand it is not unusual to find professing Christians who have determined they have superior wisdom, claiming the prophecies are unknowable and those who seek their truth are attempting to catch the wind. Never mind the fact that our Lord admonishes us to ask, seek and knock. Never mind our Lord’s admonition to ask Him for the wisdom which may be lacking. Never mind the unique blessing given those who read and hear the words of the prophecies of Revelation. And never mind the many historical creeds, including Baptist, which acknowledge the key enemy of Christ and His Church: the Pope; calling him the antichrist, the man of sin and son of perdition.

    Another common assumption regarding the identity of Mystery Babylon is that of ‘global secular humanism.’ This assumption has no reference to Rev. 17 which tells us the location of its seat of authority (Rome); the extent of its authority at the time of John’s writing (Roman Empire); the fact of its killing the saints of Jesus, which secularism does not do; a not so veiled reference to drinking the blood of Christ in the Mass (verse 6) is not applicable to humanism; her colors which in no way reflect the secular world, but do anticipate the colors of the Roman hierarchy. Nor has the secular world ever professed being the spouse of Christ. Therefore the accusation of being an unfaithful adulterous harlot does not fit.

    And finally, I ask the naysayers to consider the fact that untold numbers of professing Christians through the centuries have chosen death rather than capitulate to the threats and terrors of the Roman Catholic Church and authorities, identifying their persecutors as the Harlot Church of Antichrist as depicted in Scripture, proving their assertions through the Word of God.

    Were the martyrs ignorant of the truth? Did the Lord allow them to go to their death believing a lie? Is the history of the martyrs of small concern to us today, having little or no relevance in this present age?

    Art thou he (the Pope of Rome, Antichrist) that should come, or do we look for another? (Matthew 11:3 used as an example of choosing either to convict or absolve him of guilt.)
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    24,878
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You should probably look for another, while certain popes may be called "an" antichrist, I don't believe the papacy itself is the antichrist.
    Anyone who denies Jesus has come in the flesh is an antichrist.
    NKJ 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    Time will tell. I believe he (The antichrist) is yet to be revealed.

    NKJV 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    24,878
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is considered by Many as politically incorrect to say so I choose my words carefully.

    The religion of bloodthirsty Jihadist Islam IMO qualifies for the religion of those who persecute the "saints".

    Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    Revelation 7:
    13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    The method of slaughter (beheading sword) during the time of the Great Tribulation gives a definite clue as to who they (the beheaders) are

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/flags/saudi-arabia/

     
    #17 HankD, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    29
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    It is refreshing to hear a voice of reason. Though I disagree with many things that popes have done, and for today , I think Jorge Bergoglio is a bad player, I do not think he is "The Man of Sin " who is to be revealed. He may be helping with his lukewarmness though. No doubt there have been many men who have been wolves in sheep's clothing., the Whole of the Catholic assembly is not the Harlot though.
    We are told right in the foundation that wolves will arise in assemblies.
    Acts 20:29
    Paul's Farewell to the Ephesians
    …29I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. 31Therefore be alert and remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.…

    Outside of the Jews and Greeks the Roman church is the oldest assembly. It has risen in number above the Jews and Greeks though. That is important to note. But many will be cut off now from the tree it was grafted into.

    Not many realize, that ONLY the Catholic assembly holds all the truths established as Dogma among the Jews first. All of the Rites that were put forth by the first are upheld by Catholics. Not even the Greeks uphold all the Dogma. And for today's elect end time Jews, it will be the Elect called out of the CATHOLIC Church who will nurture Israel (when it is in Kedar) with the ABSOLUTE truth ,that it is the only assembly to preserve outside of the first to know.this because many Jews of today have been convert to a brand of what is called Christianity by the Protestants. The have been convert by concubines, but first fruits(Of the Jews) are to be converted by first fruits of the gentiles. Mystery of the song of Solomon .

    I think we have to look at what Harlot means in the context of spirituality. Can we call Islam a Harlot,Can we call Buddhism a harlot, or Hinduism , NO. A Harlot means you have an oath to Christ as a religious assembly, you have the truth , but have been unfaithful to the truth you know. It does not mean , you do not have TRUTH,it simply means you have been unfaithful to it.

    Just as Israel has been . It does not mean the truth is not in you or has not come from you but rather you have been unfaithful to the very truth you hold. Christ even called Jerusalem a Harlot, for the same thing the Catholic Church has done.

    You first have to have the truth of Christ , before you can be unfaithful to it. It does not mean you act like you have truth but actually do not. But rather you hold the truth , and have been unfaithful to it. So it can not be that All CATHOLICS have been unfaithful to Christ, but obviously a vast majority have been. Christ is not angry because you pretend to have truth. He is angry because you have the truth -DOGMA OF THE FAITH and are unfaithful.
    Catholics have the heart , but many certainly have stepped outside of that and made itself Head. But these are simply the savage wolves.
     
    #18 OfLivingWaters, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    24,878
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Within the church (both Rome and the "Separated Brethren") Physical and Spiritual porneia are related.

    Jezebel types seduce the children of God to commit physical porneia which through mystical iniquity is followed by the much more serious spiritual porneia and spiritual adultery (moikeyoo - covent breakers) .

    Revelation 2
    18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
    19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
    20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication (porneia), and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
    21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
    22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
    23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
    24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
    25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
    26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    Here we see the Jezebel type seducing the children of God with physical porneia and physical consumption of food sacrificed to idols in verse 20 which has turned into "the depths of Satan (Satanic worship) in verse 24.

    The Thyatira church is typical of many 21st century churches concealing sins of porneia.

    Overcomers have a promise of verses 25-26. Not only eternal life as believers in our great God and Savior Jesus Christ but to help in the kingdom when He comes.

    All true believers enter the kingdom - some ashamed some with reward.

    1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
     
    #19 HankD, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    29
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I have a different perspective concerning the letters to the churches. I do not feel the Letter to Thyatira is about Catholics but rather Messianic Jews . The Messianic Jew is quite different from the Christian gentile. And even different from Christian Jews who have not come into the faith of Christ through Protestantism. The Messianic Jew for all intensive purpose is actually a Protestant who adds rabbinical practices of the OC and even uses the Talmud.

    To the Church of Thyatira:
    Thyatira means: Odor of Affliction- ruled by women=false churches with the jezebel spirit.
    Revelation 2:18-29
    The Message to Thyatira
    18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: These are the words of the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and whose feet are like burnished bronze:
    19 “I know your works—your love, faith, service, and patient endurance. I know that your last works are greater than the first. 20 But I have this against you: you tolerate that woman jezebel, who calls herself a prophet and is teaching and beguiling my servants to practice fornication and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her fornication. 22 Beware, I am throwing her on a bed, and those who commit adultery with her I am throwing into great distress, unless they repent of her doings; 23 and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am the one who searches minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve. 24 But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call ‘the deep things of Satan,’ to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden; 25 only hold fast to what you have until I come. 26 To everyone who conquers and continues to do my works to the end,
    I will give authority over the nations;
    27 to rule them with an iron rod,
    as when clay pots are shattered—
    28 even as I also received authority from my Father. To the one who conquers I will also give the morning star. 29 Let anyone who has an ear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

    Those of this mind set, are of Messianic, they have the odor of affliction because they are rejected by their kin. They cling to rabbinical law and teachings .They have been brought to the faith by ,
    Protestant sects.19 “I know your works—your love, faith, service, and patient endurance. I know that your last works are greater than the first.
    Now that they believe in Yeshua, they work hard for Him, and have great love for their fellow Jews and work hard to bring more to Yeshua. They patiently endure persecution from their kin whom they seek to identify with and is why they cling to Rabbinical practices , and call themselves Messianic. They do not call themselves simply Christian due to the need to cling to that which is familiar and more acceptable to fellow Jews who cringe at the word Christian. Another denomination is born.

    "I know that your last works are greater than the first."= Your works are now greater than your first= when you were not a believer in Yeshua.

    The Lord's Love for Israel
    (Genesis 25:19-28; Romans 9:6-18)
    1The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
    2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. 4Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever. 5And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified beyond the border of Israel.

    This means you are of Jacob and should not care what your kin Esau thinks, because it is you He loves. So who cares about their Rabbinical Laws, they practice the traditions of the Talmud, which rejects Yeshua. Your relevance is not in them but in Christ. What they build Christ will through down, they are the border of wickedness and are Edom =red. God's indignation is for them. The Lord at present is magnified beyond the border of Israel. Why ? Because you reject Mother Miriam (Mary) as mother because at present you mingle yourself between rabbinical and Protestant beliefs. You can not magnify the Lord until you embrace the first who does within the New Covenant:
    Mary's Song Luke1:45-47
    45Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord’s word to her will be fulfilled.” 46Then Mary said: “My soul magnifies the Lord, 47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!…


    The Polluted Offerings Malichi 1:6-14
    6A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name.

    You despise His name because you refuse to be called Christian. This is what the apostles called him in the Greek (Christos), which most of the letters were written in. Also, His religion is not called Messianic meaning: (related to the Messiah), if you need a Hebrew name for yourself then say ha-Meshiach= anointed = Greek-Christos = Christian. There is nothing wrong with this name. It is all the same yet when you are called it you cringe and reject it as Goyim. The apostles used it.
    You are simply Christian. Stop creating division in order to separate yourself from the gentile name . You are all one house.

    Continued.......
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...