A question about Noah...

This sound very similar to that pseudo-calvinist I quoted in another thread who believed God elected some to irrisitable salvation, and left the non-elect with the gospel message only, and that some of them may come to christ also, but the Elect surely will.

No, it is not proof.

I don't think a calvinist necessarily has to divorce the outward/normative means from the inward. they would say they are all working together. So in Paul's case, there was both an outward blinding light and voice, and an inward working of the H.S. God uses means to accomplish what he has designed to do.

 

Seems that it ALL comes back to how we view effect of the fall to all of us, as your theology tends to see it as 'warping/marring" while ours tend to send it 'destroying/killing" us off!

 

I propose we remove posting privileges from those that are unwilling to use the quote feature properly.

Here's a clue JesusFan, if your responses end up in the big grey box, you are doing it wrong.

 

thanks for the help!

What did you think about what was posted though?

 

I don't know. That's the problem. When you don't post things properly it makes it tough for people to read what you are saying.

 

guess I am in good company, as even the Apostle paul was experiencing people "having trouble" reading and understanding him!

 

Boy, wasn't Noah lucky?

 

I find it humorous that Scandal classifies Jonah's and Paul's experiences as "normative." I can just hear the Ninevites:

First Ninevite: Hey, did you hear about that guy that was vomited out onto the beach by a big fish?

Second Ninevite: Just arrive on earth, did you? That's almost as unusual than the flea I found on my dog!
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First, Jonah's will was not changed. He did not willingly go to Ninevah. He was carried there quite against his will. He was coerced to preach, and was bitter and depressed over Ninevah's repentance. There was no change in Jonah's heart.

Second, no man can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Ghost, and that isn't an outward, natural or visible work. It is supernatural, and invisible, but it is not secret, as libelously asserted by Scandal.

 

The implicaton here is that Noah was chosen on the basis of some good he had done. And that is the great blasphemy of noncalvinistic thought. Some will deny it, but it doesn't change the fact that if Calvinism is not the Gospel, then men are chosen based upon their own good and favorable responses to the revelations of God, either through nature or otherwise.

 

The implication in scripture is that there was a "reason" other than some mysterious decree, connected to Noah finding favor in God's eyes. It follows that line that you seem to stop with:

"Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time and he walked with God. Why did Noah walk with God? Had he be regenerated?

You so love to toss around the allegations of blasphemy and its cousin heresy.

 

:thumbsup:

I wouldn't go as far as "Calvinism is the Gospel" (although I get what you mean here) but the fact is that if God, Himself alone, does not choose some, the whole entire race would be lost.

Those who embrace conditioned election/grace (chosen based upon ANYTHING other than God choosing alone) are teaching another Gospel altogether.


This truth is taught throughout Scripture (that God alone chooses/elects) . It is then an eternal truth.

 

God does nothing based on randomness. You portray God as an evolutionist--something many Calvinist do--a God of randomness. He did not randomly choose Noah. There was a reason--purpose in what he did.

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (Genesis 6:5)
--This describes the condition of the world at that time. However there was an exception.

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8)
--Apparently Noah was not included in the general description given in verse five. He was a preacher of righteousness; a man who found grace in the sight of the Lord.

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. (Hebrews 11:7)
--He was a man of faith, an heir of righteousness.

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2 Peter 2:5)
--In contrast to the others, Noah was Godly. God spared him.

 

Curious to just WHERE in the NT that Skan and others here see 'corporate election" by God, that God chose the "plan" to have those saved to be added into Body of Christ...

Jesus said that His Father gave Him "people" not "plans"

paul was called individually, as were ALL of the Apostles...

again, where did this Corporate election come from?

Also, where did God EVER say He was basing His responses to save us by how odedient/acted good etc?

 

What saved Noah?
It was the Ark (a type of Christ). All (corporately) who were in the Ark, were saved. All who were outside of the Ark perished.

 

You call it random. God calls it predestination, and His plan and His purposes. It only looks random to you as you are in utter fallacy theologically.

Thus, you portray God in error. Me? According to the Scriptures.

No need for your evolutionist drivel. It's not in the context here and is inflammatory nonsense. In other words? That's right: a strawman.

You're wrong yet again.

 

They didn't get it from the Scriptures.

 

You really believe it was a random choice. I pity you--the theological outlook you have.

Was it also a random choice here?

And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. (Genesis 5:22-24)

 

You're still incorrect. You're the one who calls His plan random. He doesn't call it that. You do.

Also, there is not a thing about the ambigous relationship of God and Enoch that suggests it was random. That's just a false non-theological unscriptural term you've used to label what the Word of God calls election. Obviously it was God who has Himself chosen all of His people. This is dogma, and applies here as well. It also dismantles your proof-text and feeble theology.

That you don't like it doesn't do a thing to this truth of Scripture.