A question for calvinists

Are you denying the all-knowing ability of God?

 

Rubato,

I'll cite Paul as my answer, one who believed in the sovereignty and all-knowing ability of God.

"8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about the troubles we experienced in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired of life itself. 9 Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us again. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, 11 as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many." (2 Cor 1:8-11, TNIV, emphasis mine)

Like Paul, I too will continue to pray and ask for the prayers of God's people.

How God chooses to work things out, it's all up to Him. Father knows best!

 

I am neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian (as someone has already posted), and I also agree.

If I pray as Jesus taught us: "(Let) Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven," is that a Calvinistic prayer? No, I just find it Biblical.

If I am praying for one who is very sick (perhaps has cancer). I may pray for healing, but at the same time pray for God's will to be done in this person's life. I am praying for healing and God's sovereign will to be done at the same time. Does that make me a Calvinist or free-willer? I believe in both the free will of man and the sovereignty of God. I do not believe in either Calvinism nor Arminianism.

 

You have raised some crucial issues.

Have you ever heard of open theism or process theism?

Open theism says that God is still open to the future and doesn't know the future, only general possibilities, nothing for sure.

Process theism says that God is becoming[edited for spelling] what He will eventually be.

Do you pray? What do you believe about the God who answers prayer?

 

This is my understanding of prayer, the sovereignty of God and human responsibility, yet I'm tagged a determinist.

 

What about open theism? Is God still open to what the future will eventually become?

 

What you just posted is open theism is practical terms. I'm no open theist.

To say that God doesn't know what are the "middle parts" is not only to deny the omniscience of God but also the biblical record.

Since some 300 prophecies about the coming Messiah have been fulfilled, which by the way, are not The End, but Middle parts, according to you, How do we account for these fulfilled prophecies?

 

Rubato,

This is a very complex question you ask regarding prayer and it is part of a bigger issue -- What does God foreknow and what does He foreordain?

Does God foreknow your prayer and foreordain His answer? (Free will)

Does God foreordain your prayer and foreordain His answer? (Calvinism/determinsim)

Does God not even know about your prayer, it surprises Him, and He ordains how He will answer it when He knows it? (Open theism)

Does God foreknow all the possible prayers you might make under certain conditions, foreordain the necessary conditions so that He can answer as He wills, and thus brings all things to the conclusion that He has planned? (Molinism/middle knowledge)

Do you see what a "can of worms" you have opened up??? :laugh:

To me, it is quite obvious that if God doesn't have "foreknowledge" (whereas scripture says He does) then any matrix/system that denies foreknowledge to God denies His omniscience and is, therefore by deductive reasoning, wrong.

Know further that, according to Calvinism, foreknowledge = foreordination (God has chosen whom He has chosen). That is, there is really no such thing as foreknowledge.

Now you should be able to choose the correct view, no?

skypair

 

I find it interesting that you're willing to limit the knowledge of God as a mere mortal.

Who granted that prerogative to you?

First, you said God didn't know the "middle parts."

Now you say God only knows some of the "middle parts."

I'm thankful that God is not like man.

At any rate, I'll let David speak for me:

"You have searched me, LORD,
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.

4 Before a word is on my tongue
you, LORD, know it completely.

5 You hem me in behind and before,
and you lay your hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain. (Ps 139:1-6, TNIV, emphasis mine)

 

Are there any Arminians on this board?

 

Scripture

When we put His word before us, it is He that leads us not us.

We pray we reach out, He will do as His word say's, not as we say. We don't think we are powerful than God or think we can tell God what to do, but we can trust God to do as His word say's.

Trust in Jesus and none of you will be disappointed.

 

Bob Ryan is an Arminian, SDA.

 

I was going to say that it is impossible for mere humans to understand the ways of God.
But I like your scripture better. :thumbs:

 

Scripture

James 5:17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.