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A question for libertarians who support Obama

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by rbell, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    KenH, please don't take this as an attack...it's an honest question. And yes, this is primarily for you to answer. Although if any other libertarians are out there who support Obama, chime in!:laugh:

    You've always seemed to me to be a consistent libertarian. Quite consistent.

    Obama IMO has very strong socialist leanings. (Furthermore...one of Obama's mentors--to whom he gives a great deal of credit for inspiring him to public service, is Frank Marshall Davis: an academic who is a very outspoken member of the US Communist party. SOURCE ). So one could say, Obama has some Communist pedigree.

    What makes you, a libertarian, go for someone who is IMO clearly not in your political area code? I'm very curious about that. I understand fully why you're not on McCain's bandwagon...but it surprises me you're on Obama's.

    Don't take this as an attack...it's a "fact-finding mission." I fly black helicopters, and this will make a good report at the trilateral meeting next month. :eek: :D :laugh:
     
  2. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    I support Senator Obama for two of the main reasons that I supported and voted for Congressman Paul - the protection of civil liberties and foreign policy.

    By the way, AIM is not exactly an unbiased news source. :)
     
    #2 KenH, Feb 20, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  3. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    OK...foreign policy-wise, you would be in line with most libertarians in vehemently opposing the iraq war. I'll give you that.

    Civil liberties: Obama's for expanding government (and thus reducing liberties)...right? How does that fit in with your philosophy?
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    Stopping the spying on innocent U.S. citizens.
     
  5. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    OK. Another point for consistency for you.

    But I see other issues such as healthcare (can open the door to government "lifestyle police"), gun controls, etc...I just guess I'm surprised that you've embraced his candidacy as much as you have.


    But, especially the patriot act stuff, I at least understand where you're coming from.

    Tanx.
     
  6. Andy T.

    Andy T. New Member

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    KenH is not a libertarian. He is a liberal plain and simple. He likes to play the class-envy card, the race card, the gender card. That is not libertarian. That is liberal. I would like to hear from a real libertarian.
     
  7. Andy T.

    Andy T. New Member

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    Oh, and he puts his hope in the government and who is in control of it. Another sign of a liberal. If Obama is not elected, it appears he will be devasted.
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    Oh, yeah, I'm a liberal Democrat, I'm a liberal Democrat, watch me vote. :laugh:
     
  9. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Samatha Power, one of Obama's senior foreign policy advisors has advocated -


    "investing, I think, more than sacrificing — billions of dollars, not in servicing Israel’s military, but actually investing in the new state of Palestine, in investing the billions of dollars it would probably take, also, to support what will have to be a mammoth protection force, not of the old Rwanda kind, but a meaningful military presence." LINK


    Would this not be another of those quagmires and foreign interventions that libertarians are so opposed to?


     
  10. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    I'm a card carrying Libertarian. Ron Paul has zero chance. Rs have not much chance because the economy will be worse in Nov.

    I will vote for Obama because there is a better chance he will bring the troops home and maybe he isn't yet 100% bought. Besides, it will at least amusing to hear some people arguing he isn't black enough.
     
  11. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Sounds like it to me.
     
  12. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    It does, and if our troops have been targets in Iraq, just imagine how trying to impose a settlement in Israel/Palestine would stir up the Arab world.
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    An advisor advocating something does not equal a candidate advocating something. Have you heard or read of Senator Obama advocating this?

    I am supporting Senator Obama, not his advisors nor his other supporters.
     
  14. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    In fact he has been suitably vague on any foreign policy questions, and backs off of those that he does make. As when he said, "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will." What became of that position? Swept under the rug.
     
  15. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    Just got to know where to look:

    www.foreignaffairs.org/20070701faessay86401/barack-obama/renewing-american-leadership.html?mode=print

    Since foreign policy involves all of the other nations in the world one cannot anticipate all specific situations that will occur. It is one's judgment that has to be determined and since Senator Obama opposed Bush's Folly in Iraq from the start unlike Senators Clinton and McCain he wins the foreign policy debate hands down with me.
     
  16. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Yes he has covered all the bases with truisms in this essay.

    You say that you're voting for the man, not his advisors. I guess you've forgotten all the criticism that fell on Bush's 'neocon advisors' who were blamed for getting us into unnecessary wars. Samantha Power has been one of Obama's closest advisors for several years. And when she advocates a mammoth protection force in Palestine, redirecting foreign aid from Israel to Palestine, we should take it seriously.
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    That's because President Bush actually implemented their misguided Iraq policy.
     
  18. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    And Obama, being Obama, would never actually implement policy put forth by one his closest advisors. Got it.
     
  19. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    Do you think that any U.S. president has ever implemented anywhere near 100% of the ideas of his advisors? I don't.
     
  20. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    To KenH and Billwald.

    I am disappointed. You are going back to the same old thing we have been fighting against. You are going to vote for, who you perceive to be, the lesser of two evils.

    I will be voting for Ron Paul in our primary on March 4th. I will also be voting for Ron Paul in the general election. I will have to write his name in, but I will vote for him. I absolutely refuse to vote the same old way anymore. I see exactly what voting for the lesser got me last time.

    Why on earth would you vote in favor of someone who opposes so many of the Constitutional principles you have fought for? I don't care how bad McCain might be, Obama is just as bad.

    If and when Obama becomes President, and he begins implementing all of the policies of the Democratic party (with the help of both houses of Congress in the hands of his party), you are both going to be wondering why you ever supported him, and so will I. I can not and will not contribute to any one of "the Big Three" becoming the next President of this country. I am going to stand on my principle this time and, if I must go down with the Ron Paul ship Constitution, then I will go down...but, with honor.

    I wish you both would reconsider voting for either of the Goliath parties.

    James
     
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