1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured A Text for the Calvinist

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SavedByGrace, Sep 15, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Luke 13:24 says,

    “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able"

    It here clearly says that the sinner was to "make every effort", where the Greek word, "ἀγωνίζομαι", means to "contend, struggle, to endeavor with strenuous zeal", etc. to get into heaven. Why the need for this, if as Reformed theology teaches that only the "elect", who have been "preordained" to eternal life, even before the world was created, can ever be saved? If the "elect" have their destination preordained for them, then surely there is no need to "contend or struggle" to get into heaven!. "contend or struggle" means that they have to DO something, which means "Justification by faith alone (which is nowhere taught in the Bible)", is wrong!
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    44,660
    Likes Received:
    2,208
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the pharisees kept trying to enter in by their own good works and "merit", as do all who even today try to get in thru the "back door"
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    so why did Jesus say this? He is not talking about any "merit" for enterning the Kingdom. His words are clear, but what do they mean, if not what He says?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,656
    Likes Received:
    124
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Justification by Faith alone is not Just for Calvinists. Would you agree that Jesus is the way ? ( John 14.6 ) Every one who is a believer has already Found the way .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,656
    Likes Received:
    124
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your name is ' saved by grace ' . Is there anything else we are saved by ?
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus Christ is The ONLY Way, why would you ask me that? "Justification by Faith alone", is a Biblical impossibility, as it removes the necessity of the sinner to also REPENT. Jesus Himself says this in Mark 1:15, "REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel". He does not says simply BELIEVE. Repentance is NOT a "work" as the Reformed wrongly conclude, it is agreeing with God that as a sinner, they must have "godly sorrow" for this sins and ask to be forgiven. "Justification by Faith alone" is an inaccurate discription of the True Gospel.
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did not save myself!
     
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,730
    Likes Received:
    404
    Jesus warned those who are saved/following Him that the road they walk would not be easy. They would suffer persecution throughout and must be prepared to endure until the very end.

    This passage is more about perseverance after faith, rather than initial coming to salvation

    peace to you
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your reasoning is not correct. Here is the verse in its context, you will note the question asked, "“Lord, are there few who are saved?”, which is very clearly about salvation. Jesus then goes on to respond to this...

    22 And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”

    And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”
     
  10. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    271
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree, this is a classic verse for moral ability to have saving faith through striving. Although, faith is not a good work deserving something, it is only salvific due to the mercy and grace of God.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ask a Hindu ascetic why he works so hard to achieve perfection.
    Ask any of the Jehovah’s Witnesses that knock at your door why they work so hard.
    Ask anyone at an AA meeting why they “make every effort”.
    Ask a Hassidic Jew why he works so hard.

    All seek the narrow path, but none of them have placed their trust in Jesus to carry them across the finish line as God the Father predestined.

    (My point is that “striving for the goal” and “being drawn by God” are not incompatible and Luke does not teach that they are incompatible.)
     
    #11 atpollard, Sep 15, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    271
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with you 100% except the last word. The object of our faith, our savior Jesus Christ, matters because the Gospel is the truth.
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    17,831
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God ordains the ways and the means of bringing salvation to completion.
    The elect are urged to strive, to be diligent, pursue holiness without which no man shall see the Lord, mortify sin.
    It is not an impersonal fatalism. God is in complete control from start to finish, but we repent, we believe, we examine ourselves all as a part of the good works which are ordained for us.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,293
    Likes Received:
    641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sorry, but I am just repeating what God said ...

    And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; [Romans 8:28-29 NASB]
    ... so those that are conformed to the image of His son (at the finish line), were “predestined” by God (who “causes all things to work together” and calls “according to His purpose”).

    (FYI: I completely agree that Jesus Christ, and our faith in Him, matters. As the Bible says: If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. [Romans 10:9-10 NIV]. )
     
  15. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    271
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is true God predestined the believers Paul was talking to in Romans 8, but Romans 9 shows Paul still desires the salvation of more people in the Jews. This leads to Paul explaining how God will save some from among the Jews by making them jealous of the Gentiles. This culminates in the statement,

    30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    8,667
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Faith:
    Baptist
    To the OP from a Sovereign Grace Primitive Baptist brother... This has nothing to do with Calvinist or Arminian doctrine it has to do with all Gods sheep who are obedient or disobedient, its a sheep gate... You obey your blessed, you don't you're not... Sheep wander, sheep get lost and sometimes sheep go where they shouldn't and I am speaking of ALL of us brethren, myself included... We have a Shepherd who looks after his sheep, he died and shed his precious blood for us, do you think for a minute, he would let any of us perish?... GOD FORBID!!!

    There is no one on this earth that can walk the narrow gate and Jesus Christ is the only one who did... Jesus Christ the Son of the most high God appeased those of his elect, who couldn't... He stood where they could not and paid a price they could never pay... At least there is a few of us on here and another one joined the group that believes in Salvation by the grace of Jesus Christ 100%... SavedByGrace... Welcome to the Baptist Board... I'm Brother Glen:)

    My thoughts on Election!... Not like some on here Hell will be full and Heaven will be pretty empty

    Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
     
    #16 tyndale1946, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    • Winner Winner x 3
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,539
    Likes Received:
    1,609
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sermon in this text by a five-point Calvinist
    :
     
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    8,667
    Likes Received:
    1,305
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is that you Martin?... Brother Glen:)
     
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,656
    Likes Received:
    124
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree that the T.U.L.I.P is completely unbiblical. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Repentance is ' change your mind ' . Moving from the current frame of thinking to another . For instance could you quote me a verse anywhere in the book of John the word 'repent ' ? or in the definition and how to appropriate salavtion passages of Rom 10 .9 and 1 cor 15.1-4 ?
     
  20. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,656
    Likes Received:
    124
    Faith:
    Baptist
    By Grace . Through faith .
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...