Abortion or Poverty?

Of course not. Those who support the issue will be glad to ignore, distort, and explain away clear scripture. Do you think that Gods foreknowledge is limited to children not conceived by rape? Do you think god has no intent or plan for them? Where in scripture do you find that?

And of course you pull out the most difficult of situations. But the argument from the mudering abortionists has been such for years. Then the reality becomes that abortion is the norm mostly in matters of convenience. Women mudering babies because they cant afford them is evil. There are other options. The tactic of arguing worst case scenarios has made abortion a birth control method for irresponsible people, which is the norm not the exception.

 

And your point is?

 

Must admit, that comment from Magnetic completely lost me also. I read the posts and could not see what it was coming from. :thumbsup:

 

The "mass of cells" is the beginning of human life. Just because this is not in the recognizable form of a human baby does not mean that this "mass" is inhuman.

Yes, life is more than just physical existence, but we do start off with a body - we can't exist on earth without one. Therefore, I think this point is moot as far as conception and birth go. Humans don't exist before conception and they can't exist without it.

God is the one who created life to come into being this way from the very beginning when he told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. It's His plan to have the baby come into being at conception -- I think there are more bible passages in support of this than against it.

Using a visual criteria, such as claiming a "mass of cells" does not look human and is therefore able to be obliterated with no moral compunction, is not biblical at all. We should not go by appearance.

We should assume life begins at conception since this is most clearly the case from what we know in the Bible and from what we know about biologically speaking how life begins. If all the DNA is there, that is the formation of a human being.

 

I agree with you Marcia. Just to clarify, I believe life begins at conception.

My questions were to those who believe it is okay to guess when life begins and hope for the best.

So to those who do not believe life begins at conception, when does life begin?

Is it at the first breath? Is it when they have lungs and a brain? WHen the heart starts to beat?

Do you really want to guess and hope for the best?

 

Well, it was in response to your comment:

Thinking that something is going against God is why people were against airplanes. Hence, my remark.

The same reasoning was given against administering anesthesia during childbirth, since it went against the Genesis mandate of pain in childbirth.

 

Actually, there is nothing in the Bible to support such a claim. Nada. Zip.

 

I do not find your analogy logically valid at all. Some things are going against God. This has nothing to do with modern inventions that aren't in the Bible. We are talking about destroying something that many consider to be human life.

 

Well, to talk about God "opening a womb" is just plain over the top, IMO.

 

So what about Lk 1.31

When does the human incarnation of Jesus begin? Would it have been wrong for Mary to have had an abortion? According to you, if I understand your position, the early stages of pregnancy are not authentic human life, so it would not have been killing Jesus.

So how and when is Isaac's prayer answered? It's answered at conception. Something happens at conception, something called human life. This is clearly how God designed human life to come into being. How can you deny that?

Children are conceived; at conception, what you have is a child. Over and over in the Bible we read, "She conceived and bore a son," or "she conceived and gave birth to a daughter." The formation of a child is conception; that is when a child's life begins. How can you say that the early stages are not a child or that it's okay to end the life at the early stages?

 

Well, you need to complain to God about that.

Do you realize how many times in the OT it says this? It says it over and over, especially when someone had been barren like Hannah or Leah.

There's nothing "over the top" about it. It clearly shows that it is ultimately God who allows women to conceive or not. He is in control of that because he is the creator of life.

 

Have you seen this pic of a 21 week old baby holding the Dr. hand.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2895/takemyhand.html



MNW has asked several times, At what age does a unborn baby have life? Exactly when does it turn from aborting a mass of cells to murdering a baby.

This pic is 21 weeks. It is leagal to kill this baby and people are doing it everyday.

 

Marcia, as I have said so many times before, the verses talk about conception leading to the birth of a child. No one doubts that, it is fact. The verses DON'T say that the human life begins at the moment of conception. They say a woman conceives, and later, bears a child. Very clear.

 

Very sad picture DeeJay, but very powerful and thought provoking. :tear:

Now, I believe life begins at conception, but, to ask again, if life does not begin at conception when does it begin?

We are talking about the life of an innocent child here. To glibly say, "Oh, life begins somewhere between week X and week Y" is monumentally stupid in my opinion.

That is saying, "well, we are not sure when life begins but lets do an abortion now and hope for the best. Maybe it'll be murder and maybe not. But it does not matter that much."

It is this thinking that belittles life, it is evolutionary thinking, survival of the fittest and ultimately leads to killing or leaving to die any who are weaker or less fortunate.

So, when does life begin?????

 

The picture I posted had a happy ending.


Samuel Alexander Armas







Another view (he does not look like a mass of cells to me)

 

DeeJay, I had seen that picture several times before but never with the true story. I just did some searches on it and it is amazing!

Thanks for sharing and posting the update you did.

 

It is pretty amazing what medical science can accomplish. And 21 weeks is not the point we are talking about, nor is young Sam Armas after his birth. These are strawmen being tossed into the discussion. We are talking about very early after conception, not after development of hands, lungs, heart, etc.

 

The question remains, when does life begin?

If it is a rough guess then does that not show how cheap life has become?

 

It should be pointed out that we have a universal health care program now. No one dies in the street because they can't afford health care.

It's just poorly done and more expensive than any other system in the world.

We have the worst of both worlds.

 

Didn't listen when Dad gave you "the talk?" :sleep: