Featured Abraham and "the deeds of the law"

The Scriptures teach that we must endure to the end in order to be saved.

So then a person who has endured for 30 years and then goes goofy because of a mini stroke or whatever goes to Hell?

 

Greetings again The Biblicist and billwald,

I appreciate your replies, but as usual I am a little confused at some aspects of your answer.

Abraham is set forth as the example of justification by faith. He believed the promise concerning the seed and God accounted that belief as righteousness.
Genesis 15:5-6 (KJV): 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
This is outside of the works of the law or good works, or as you put it "the works of the law" or "good works", which from what you have written is defined in a different sense which is difficult to follow.

What happened to the believers in AD70 is an example for all believers, we must endure and not lose that character of the faithful – love. Those who fail will not be saved.

Same as above. The trials of life need to be endured. We need to remain faithful under trial. If we start to lose faith and love then we will end up in perdition. Paul was including his hearers, but they needed to respond in faith to all that he taught in Hebrews and not drift away from the faith when under severe trial.

Not sure if I agree with all of this. Yes I believe in justification by faith not works of law.

To argue from a possible exception is not to answer the general rule. We must endure under trail and not lose our faith and love.

I disagree. You cannot separate these, especially as this was the subject of warning and encouragement by Jesus and the letter to the Hebrews. We either listen and heed the Word, or reject it when thoroughly presented in this manner.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

trevor

So God did not count Christ as Abraham"s Righteousness ?

 

Greetings savedbymercy,

I do not know why you seem to object to Genesis 15:6 and Paul’s clear statement that Abraham’s faith was counted for righteousness. Paul here also includes all those of like precious faith:
Romans 4:3-5 (KJV): 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Perhaps the following will satisfy you, showing that God’s righteousness is centred in the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is given by God’s grace to the believer of the gospel:
Romans 1:16-17 (KJV): 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 3:25-26 (KJV): 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

Greetings again The Biblicist,

I still consider that partly from what you say above, and from your earlier posts, that you really disconnect the teaching of James about justification in James 2 from the teaching of Paul in Romans 4. I consider that these are one and the same process.

The whole book of Hebrews was written to believing Jews as the crisis of AD70 was fast approaching. The hearers were in danger of forsaking Jesus and uniting with Judaism in defense of Jerusalem. To forsake Jesus by staying in Jerusalem would have been forsaking their true spiritual life. We have no record of how many held fast to Jesus in these trials, and how many threw in their lot with Judaism and how many others simply failed through the difficult circumstances. But it depended on whether they listened to the admonition and warnings of Jesus and Paul. The events of AD70 and its effect upon the Jewish believers is another example of salvation and justification by faith, not only in initial belief and salvation from past sins, but an ongoing way of life. This necessary way of life is the pattern of Hebrews 11 “By faith Abel offered” and so the pattern of the each believer mentioned, “By faith xxx (acted in accordance with their faith)”. One of Paul’s final appeals is the following, calling for action based upon what he had taught them, which they had to espouse in faith:
Hebrews 13:13-14 (KJV): 13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Hebrews 10:35-39 (KJV): 35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
I read the above as conditional. Notice also Habakkuk 2:4 is quoted in v38 above and this speaks of justification by faith, and also that this faith and justification will result in eternal life. This statement concerning justification is an introduction to Hebrews 11 which speaks of what the faithful did and is teaching that the Hebrews must follow the examples of the faithful, that is those that acted in accordance with their faith. Faith and correct action, a faith that works by love, comes by hearing the word of God Romans 10:17, Galatians 5:6. I do not accept OSAS.

John 5:24, 10:28-30 speak of the greater power of Christ against external adversaries, on behalf of the believers who remain steadfast. This does not preclude an individual falling away. I would not directly connect those of Hebrews 10:39 with those of 1 John 2:19. Those in John’s times actively opposed the teachings of the Apostle John and the faithful, having espoused what appears to be a mix of Judaism and Greek philosophy. This falling away was part of the development of the false church, the antichrist system, with its many false doctrines such as immortal souls, heaven going and trinity. Those in Hebrews more likely generally failed, through weakness or espousal of Judaism, and many would have been engulfed in the overthrow of Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

what is the basis of God justification of yourself?

How does God save any one?

By works of rightousness that we have done, or by the Cross of Christ, accessed thru by faith ALONE?

 

Greetings again The Biblicist and Yeshua1,

I have also read your latest comments in response to Yeshua1. I bought a book at a sale on Tuesday and I was interested in his comments on what represents Christianity and what he considers are cults. He defines what he considers “the three branches of Christendom – Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant”, and that “there is a general agreement among them as to the essentials of the faith.” He then states that those who hold some of the beliefs I cherish as belonging to a cult. I found it interesting that this particular Protestant felt comfortable with the Church of Rome, a system that I believe is the antichrist system. The development of the Roman Catholic Church is depicted in Daniel 7. It is sad that modern Protestant Churches have lost their “protest” and are gradually drifting back into the “mother church”.

The expression “faith ALONE” is attributed to Luther who exposed the corruption of the Roman Catholic Church, especially with their indulgences. Luther did not understand James 2, and he called the epistle of James, “an epistle of straw”. The Biblicist attempts to reconcile Luther type theology with James’s epistle as summarised in his post above, but I do not know whether all would agree with him, and whether Luther would endorse this explanation. In my opinion he does not understand the true Scriptural doctrine of justification by faith and most probably your echo of “faith ALONE” is also deficient.

I believe in justification by faith in the gospel of the things of the kingdom and the name of Jesus Christ. This faith leads to baptism and a life of sanctification by means of the Word of God affectionately believed and espoused, and a patient and earnest waiting for the return of Jesus to establish his kingdom upon the earth for the 1000 years.
Acts 8:5,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

I remind you also of what James says concerning Abraham, and note he is quoting the important passage in Genesis 15:6. Note also James rejects the expression “faith ALONE” by saying “not by faith only”:
James 2:21-24 (KJV): 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

NONE are, or even can be saved by doing ANY works of the Law, as NONE of that will remove our original sin debt owed to God!

As the BASIS of any getting justified is by death of Chreist, and faith placed in him will have God fully and completely justify/save the sinner, immediatly giving him new nature AND the presense of the Holy Spirit!

Good works follow all of that, as we in christ shall seek to do them in order to please the Lord!

 

Greetings again Yeshua1,

I agree that none can be saved by doing the works of the Law. Salvation is by faith and this is the same as saying justification is by faith. This is not faith only in the death of Jesus, but belief of the gospel of the kingdom and the name, in all its fullness, simplicity and beauty Acts 8:5,12.

I do not agree that a believer receives a new nature. I also believe that today we only receive the Holy Spirit in the sense that we absorb the product of the Holy Spirit, the Word of God 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The expression “good works” could be misunderstood. What is required is works of faith. Hebrews and James give the example of Abraham offering up Isaac. This was a work of faith. Abraham believed in the promises concerning the seed, and he believed in the resurrection. He trusted that what God had promised He would be able and willing to perform. This motivated Abraham, and the Scriptures record that Abraham was justified by this faith, that is this work of faith.

Sanctification comes through faith, an affectionate belief of the gospel of the kingdom and the name Acts 8:5,12, Acts 3.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

Greetings again The Biblicist,

I am encouraged by this response and definition. In other words we should seek to espouse Apostolic teachings and practice, and seek to exclude all else.

I do not understand the distinction you make between the “gospel of the kingdom” and “the things of the kingdom”. The gospel preached after Jesus’ death and resurrection included two main elements, the things of the name and the things of the kingdom.
Acts 8:5,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
In my opinion most Protestants ignore teaching the things of the kingdom, and even if an attempt is made there are many wrong ideas which do not agree with the Scriptures. Similarly in my opinion Protestants teach many wrong aspects concerning the things of the name.

Too long to quote in full, but I cannot accept or understand your distinctions. I believe that Abraham was justified by faith only at Genesis 15:6, not before. At least this was the first Divine declaration concerning Abraham’s justification. His offering up of Isaac is a development of that same faith. This offering was not “good works”, because outside of faith this would have been murder of his son. Justification, regeneration and sanctification come from faith.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

How do you view those 3 in regards to a christian?

When do they happen, and how?

 

Greetings again The Biblicist and Yeshua1,

I agree that the promise “In thee shall all nations be blessed” is given by Paul as a summary of the gospel. Even though Abraham believed this promise and journeyed to Canaan in response, I am not sure if he was justified by faith until Genesis 15:6. Yes I agree that the promise concerning the seed and his response in faith in Genesis 15:6 is an enlargement and development of his faith and response in Genesis 12:3. In our own lives, I consider it necessary to understand the full gospel before we are ready to respond in a faith that is acceptable, and that God will by grace consider that faith as righteousness.

I am not sure what you are asking. What are the “3” that you are referring to?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

Justification, regeneration and sanctification come from faith.

 

Greetings again Yeshua1,

True or Biblical faith is a response to when the gospel is preached in its completeness, simplicity, purity and beauty. A wrong teaching creates a wrong response and character. The true gospel creates within the individual repentance and a desire to conform to the ways of God. The initial response is a recognition of sin, humility and a desire to be identified with the sacrifice, the death and resurrection of Christ. This process is putting to death the old ways of the flesh, and allowing the things of the gospel to be a motivating force in a new, resurrected way of life. This way of life leads to sanctification. The whole process is one of faith in response to the gospel. Justification is by faith at the beginning of one’s first acceptance of the gospel, and throughout the whole person’s life. The end in view is the kingdom to be set up on earth, preceded by judgement and forgiveness or blotting out of sin, resulting in a change of nature at the return of Christ Acts 3:19-21.

Perhaps a few quotations, but there are many others that need to be considered to fill in the full picture:
The following is a simple summary of the initial preaching of the gospel and the response of the believers:
Acts 8:5,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Notice that it was simply the word of the gospel that was preached. To preach Christ is defined as things of the kingdom and the name, and they believed these things and were baptised. This is justification by faith and regeneration. They did not at this stage receive the Holy Spirit until some days later, when the Apostles came. Philip did not impart the Holy Spirit. Thus the Holy Spirit received was the gifts of the Holy Spirit, given in different parts to different members of the believers at Samaria, not for the individual’s regeneration or sanctification, but for the benefit or edification of the assembly (Gk: ecclesia – not church in the sense of a building) at Samaria as a whole.

A good example of sanctification, a response of faith, is the way of life revealed in the Apostle Paul:
Galatians 1:15-16 (KJV): 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Galatians 2:20 (KJV): I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
The above quotation is a good example of the teaching that Christ’s sacrifice is representative, not substitutionary. We need to be identified with Christ in his way of life, putting to death the flesh, and living by the power of faith in his resurrected life.

Paul in his example and his preaching revealed this crucified life in their midst.
Galatians 3:1 (KJV): O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
It is significant that the quotations above are taken from the Book of Galatians, and this book was written to counteract the Judaiser’s claim that it was necessary to not only believe but also keep the Law of Moses. Paul answer is that the life of faith is what is required. This life starts with faith, and justification, regeneration and sanctification flow from this. The end product is a character well-pleasing to God, resulting in humility, service and praise to God, the Creator. Law-keeping and seeking to do “good works” can generate pride and self-worship.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the great exemplar, and the way of life we are called upon to follow is also revealed in Paul and the other Apostles and disciples, and faithful of old:
1 Corinthians 11:1 (KJV): Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

The above are a few aspects of the things concerning the name of Jesus Christ. A correct view of the things of the kingdom are also necessary for faith in the true gospel. The various promise to Eve, Abraham and David are a good starting point, and perhaps a list of a few aspects of the kingdom:
Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:44, Micah 4:1-8, Zechariah 14, Matthew 19:28, Acts 1:11, Acts 3:19-21.

Kind regards
Trevor