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Accuracy of Translation - Luke 1:15b

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Deacon, Dec 27, 2006.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Aug 23, 2002
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    I didn't want to steal his Rippon's thread, (Accuracy in Translation) so I thought I'd start a new one.

    I'll bring up a phrase I've been looking at this week in his chosen versions (TNIV and HCSB) and some others.

    Luke 1:15

    [Speaking of John the Baptist] "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord and will never drink wine or beer. He will be filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother’s womb. " HCSB

    "...even before he is born." TNIV

    "...even from birth." NIV

    Note that the ESV and KJV translate it differently from the above.

    Luke 1:15
    "...even from his mother’s womb." ESV

    "...even from his mother’s womb." AV 1873

    There are a number of different problems that have to be dealt with in this verse.

    1. Formal equivalence verses Dynamic equivalence.

    This can be seen easily by noting the versions that do not include the Greek phrase, "mother's womb". TNIV, NIV and NLT, as well as the NET and the NRSV

    2. Meaning, Was John filled before birth or from birth?

    The NIV seems to indicate that it happened at birth ("from birth"), which is similar in meaning to the MESSAGE that renders it, "...from the moment he leaves his mother's womb".
    The timing in this translation is distinctly at the birth of John.

    With the TNIV and HCSB the timing is distincly before the birth of John.

    Two common Greek words are important here,

    1. "ex" (ἐκ) which can mean: out of, from, by, away from, since


    2. "eti" (ετι) yet, even, still, as well as further, in addition, and nevertheless

    The TNIV translates "eti" (as 'even') but adds the meaning "before".

    The HCSB doesn't translate "ex", adding "while".

    IMO, the ESV and KJV both provide a proper translation but fail to clearly differentiate the timing of the filling.

    My question: Can this be accurately determined from the text or from other scripture?

  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Aug 20, 2002
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    The Greek word 'katabole' is translated foundation
    and with 'cosmos' is translated 'foundation of the world'.

    In the New Testament there are 10 occurances of
    'foundation of the world'. There are two conditions:

    pro (before)
    apo (since or from)

    Seven start with 'apo'
    Three start with 'pro'

    The differences are doctrinaly significant:
    the three starting with 'pro' has to do with
    God's love of Christ, God's selection of Christ,
    and Christ's selection of we Christ-ones.
    All these pertain to the Church before the
    foundation of the world